Camaldolese History Class

Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.



Suggested Keywords:


Camaldolese History Class. Introduces where to find Camaldolese resources in the NCH library. Discusses bibliography and primary sources. Life of the Five Brothers (earliest manuscript).



Auto-Generated Transcript

how is that the usual for here yeah it's course a friend that are for it back just one get now
a higher up the to try
i just sort of no direct that unless we have to do something in of
ah so we next week and then when i come back from back on the fifteenth of may on a tuesday
and now will meet on wednesday that week that the very next day i get back because thursday that like it's cute or recreation there so will is fitted in the sort of psychic packs so we don't yet another week as far as i can tell augusta we're going to catch up on
half of this course it looks like it's going to right about fifteen to twenty period closer to fifteen nine stuck
but that's the way it looks right now please printing costs well but there are
they want me to teach monastic history following this book
and that course rise between thirty six and forty periods
we'll see we'll see if that even happens or or where we go with it there's not going to be any assignment in this class
to have you know either written or presentational ah
assignments being given for this because everything is to almost everything is in a foreign language and and you'd have we'd have to do peripheral stuff and that's just busy in i mean i can give you well why don't you do a presentation on the harris insipid that are going on this time on them which is fine but
what are maybe next time around i don't think would do that this time if i do teach the
manal general monastic history course dem will get into major presentations and at that can be really fun i've done that before
jacket cypriots class gave up his on john on this was matthew and just to print give fine presentations we have a lot of fun with that with that class anyway
you're not you'll notice probably already that i have set aside a reference shelf for commodities studies course you're welcome to look at that any time you want please don't take this stuff out of the library because i haven't there for me as well kiss i need to to grab
at me for any given lectures
i want to talk a little bit about our library as far as come on these studies cause we have a pretty good collection now i i've gotten an awful lot over the years from italy and and when i was in italy the two summer's over there and again last last fall and usually stuff my suitcase
is full of things that i can ah bring over that we don't have for our library you you probably already do no work of main commodity these section is and the monte corona section is just the shelf underneath that so the to seventy seven or ninety eight and two seventy seven one
hundred our cover most of the commodities history at these are we also have a large section of peter damian
i'm over in the patristic subsections or two thirty six will find peter damian and there are odd things catalogued here and there depending on the on the tough on the subject matter for instance the are art books on our artists were not there in the arts section for the most
the part and benedetto qualities collections when i said on
sapienza monastic are something like that sapienza monastic is is actually in to forty two three or four sorts with monastic and religious life on
well actors or essays or whatever so it's not in the command of this section at all
also in the church history section you can find a number of things including the complete set of the forty of ilana volumes the annual that comes up forty hour varna studies in fact the next next volume of that which we should be getting sometime this summer
will our will give us the
proceedings and papers given at the forty avalon a conference that joseph and i attended lust last fall and our our our talks will be in their course in italian
some of the
matter material that i can cover in this course will come out excuse me in the book though that we have coming out with the press in the fall for instance again joseph and my talks on will be chapters in that book
as well as quite a bit of stuff it's it's really going to be fine volume fine resource for for us
vocationally certainly but also just getting our commodities message across to a wider market
then italian and i can't we don't have much published june in english
in languages if you have any foreign languages at all that are on this list your lack latin italian french german spanish on there are things on our history or spirituality that are available to you in the library i put spanish and brackets
because there are only a couple little things and they are actually on
things that are written by or about the coronation that are who are in colombia
other so that you want my name and other spanish resources but if you can read french or latin or spanish than you can pretty well wage your through v wade your way through italian it's not hard at all and we have a lot of good stuff from italian
my own background is i'm self taught although i had my french on from childhood i taught myself italian i began the year before i came here on while i was still in north dakota and i taught myself the base
six of grammar and just plowed my way through the history the magique coronal congregation which i'm we never had and is very rare these volumes and assumption had a copy we don't have it
or we didn't have it until a month ago when i borrowed the copy from the manticore on in ohio and photocopied
their history for us so we have enough at least a photocopy of that but anyway that's i'm just saying this to just to point out that if you just have the discipline and if you've taught you know if you've learned any languages at all you know this is true if you just have the discipline to to keep at
it you can get languages and at least reading comprehension wise and dumb it's these languages are invaluable for command of these studies even german we have a number of things that if you can read german
ah are available to us in commodities studies some of the first critical stuff that was done on st rami old for instance is only available in german
and there are a few things
on peter damian critical commentaries and bibliographic stuff
and historical stuff that is in german only
but the main oak of a of our materials will be found in latin italian and french and now would we have a growing body in english mostly a history but a little bit of spirituality also and of course the
our main primary sources now are translated into into english there's anyone here though you have french don't you investing do you have friend view of spanish and you have french do you have any restrict latin say that yeah well then you can get food futures
plugging through are plotting food and stuff also latin was still the most invaluable or most valuable language for this studies of have come all this stuff only because our primaries sources are in the original latin and so you
could read italian translation now you can meet in english translation we have the french translations also can have all of them like i did when i was doing some work had all spread out in front of me and just notice tell them you know things were changing from language to language but still lacking is the most important sure going to do any see
serious work and come out these studies at all down the line for instance of gustin if you do something from a major paper over there there's something in your own tradition it's really good to brush up on your latin that much you know at least have the us primary source
she is in the original there and even if you're using an italian or english at least two you know enough land to zone zone zoom in on on you know ah the phrase you're using are working with him
ah we've i've got now
i guess it must be close to forty three pages of bibliography the that i've developed over the years on komodo these history and molly spirituality namely there's a lot of other stuff that could be put in here but i wanted to limit myself to history and spirituality this foldable or to will
will appear in at the end of our our book it's coming up with press and and so you know i presume everybody in the community will have a copy that for console don't have the bibliography available themselves to any of you know this booklet here is commendably you have a copy these are extra that are
for nothing else for the photos of of commodity so i'll give you these
upon war
i wonder has fished into
sure come out of a i speak to one of the of the houses are don't know which one but when he might like he carry from oh yea oh yea yea i better hold this for camera rustic we'll see who really wants to ah that there's an english version
of that now that they sell of come onto the also
and maybe while you're over there you might want to grab a few you'll find a when you are a commodity you're going to find them all laying all over the place just sort of collect them slowly and the
bring the booty back when you when you come home on vacation
anyway this you you might want to look through this bibliography this there's a surprising amount of stuff in english that i've i've found here and there and
sunday when you're over the library just go through the or when you have in the book this fall just go through the bibliography him
and see what what is available
i'm so i want to say a little bit this week then about our primary sources for our history and and our spirituality
the first work of primary source that we have is the life of the five brothers
written by bruno benefice of crawford
what year was it eighteen eighty eight it was published it had been missing for centuries obviously bruno benefice wasn't living and eighteen eighty eight
the the original paasio or passion
others this your the five brothers saints in their companions on was discovered
and published as a dissertation a doctoral dissertation in eighteen eighty eight
by a dr reinhard cardi who founded yeah i found this manuscript dated twelve o for
and and published it in in eighty eighty eight and already then to a published twelve or for it wasn't an obviously wasn't a first edition of the of the passion
and later on five years later
what i should i should say this doctor published it and then five years later published it again
or it was published again by somebody else as dissertation
in krakow so in poland where the manuscript was discovered
actually was discovered in germany first term then published in poem by this other fellow as part of the dissertation this is the only primary source we have written during the lifetime of st romeo
we tend to thank you know a life of romeo and not was written in our right around that what was right around that time but it wasn't written during his own lifetime
whereas this one works
ah the italian version came out and nineteen fifty one
and it was done by
one of our commander these scholars
in usd
bernardo in usd
who did awful lot of stuff and really got things are published on our saints on our history and on our primary sources
and so that that copy or that italian version had the latin original and then and the italian translation you'll run across if you study commodities studies show run across this name law suits all the time awesome french fellow is a french door
minnick last you
and done
he's always publishing in french the things that in has done in in italian and so basically if you if you don't know a time and you know french
you can you can get a lot of bar of our on primary source and some of the history and spirituality as well because this fellow kept publishing he was quite taken still is still alive
quite taken with both romulus and peter damian and and soul published a lot of their stuff in in france he's a very close friend of the other congregation the current ac
in nineteen ninety four we finally got it in english thanks to thomas martyrs
we get the life of the as he calls it what it's a netbook the mystery of the five brothers and or the mystery of romulus than the five brothers or something like that we published here with source books
and another thing if you're really interested in ah the five brothers
and bruno bonuses you'll want to read ah what amounts to be the
the your the italian equivalent of the master's thesis by our or or roberto was now working time with the instant interestingly enough he's doing his doctoral dissertation on that whole secret part of the hill
astrium will get to that later on were in nineteen thirties where the center bites were shut down and forced to you didn't become secularized or jointly ah
join our congregation and it was all hushed up in result some finagling going around there and it's never been known exactly what happened and he's doing his doctorate on that whole episode an homage she's going to be only get up at the vatican library will see what he comes up with
if things had become available to him his neighbors foreigner foreigner charm roberto
when charlie
i might be was spilling for not for not for much i find is they've been met and he's known the are
seller at rome while him stairs student to swell and he's going to be ordained
ah shortly use brother for many many years and then decided to go for our nation just recently
and he his work as on on bruno boxes and that whole episode with the five brothers and the whole polish thing and bruno doing his own thing and it's it's a marvelous tool it's not
published yet he wanted me to trusted publish it in english or and i never got around to in fact i ended up at epiphany and data the and then on my leave of absence i never got to it but if you read italian it's quite quite quite good i don't think joseph still house it he had it for many many months because he was doing his work on
a triple good
on but anyway it's it's really fun to read also your interest to the door on the second primary source that we have this of course life and of said rama done by peter d
peter damian who did not know romney old
in fact on
never know them
met some of his disciples but never met ronald
ah peter damian
ah who's want my goodness the milenio celebration of his birth is coming up in two thousand and seven so as thousand years ago that he was born practically
he did some evidently some hunting around to find disciples of romeo and to get anecdotes from the news stories and and what facts he could gather about ah the st and about his work
ended up writing the life of romuald
the a lot and text you can find in minya and we have the to you know it's it's could get some contained in the two volumes of peter david from from mean yeah and we have those like actions actually there i'm signed out to me at this point
but anyway we have them and if you want to look at it i have it
that was published and eighteen fifty three the the a critical latin text and
ah a major source for the studies of command these history and rwandan studies was done by for burning tobacco
and he did a model
a lot of publishing on wrong and peter damian and the early room waldie and world anyway he published the authority to that and critical latin text in nineteen fifty seven
can't underestimate the value of this guy's work what he did for for our for our congregation and for our study of our history
thomas mattis that came out with a show an italian translation and nineteen eighty eight
in nineteen ninety four maddest then came out with the english translation which came out of that same volume that the life of the five brothers was published in the source books
la seu of course to the french version in the nineteen sixties
that came out
ah other important sources that we have i mean that we've already reached the end of the primary sources however there are there are other
primary sources that are contingent are tangential to romuald to what became of the remote in movement and then laid around the commodities or congregations
and these these primary sources are are peter damien's oak was fifty one which is you can also get under the title rule of the arab medical life in english
we have these volumes that are coming out
trance the works peter damian done by ah
and blue francis can open a blom actually b l u m o in plum and the end the catholic university of washington's doing them there are six volumes planned for of which now has been have been translated these are not in the peter damian section these are in the
the fathers of the church series section and this these particular books are in the new a portion of that series called the medieval continuation
so if you ever want to see that i mean you're not us use library but i can easily and quickly point them out to you some time in the library
ah does the only english version we have of peter damian works the latin of course as i said you can get into in media and an italian version of this particular oprah's fifty one which is all
so the letter to the monk named toit so
and that's how peter demon did not either so he did his works on in the forms of letters he'd write a letter to impress agnes or or the monk toys zone or abbott whatever alberta over something and and within that he would write in the letter it's a
while now here's the rule you have been asking about here and that that's how we got the rule
or the other another important one is the evelyn need a customary so the customs of how they were living at forty of ilana during peter damian stay and that was a letter to someone named stefano
and that's oprah's fifteen by the way and we also you know you can get that on the same volume volume two in english by this bluhm
ah anyway in in nineteen fifty nine
this in gst bernardo in usd did the italian translations of all the monastic writings of peter damian which had quite a few to so he came out with two volumes of ski dimona stitching
and i'm
those were basically what we had until
besides the lot of course until
recently until blood came along as far as english is concerned
so what we have in the album anita customary and is a pretty concise description of how the monks were living and forty obama
forty obama was certainly room wall dm
it wasn't a common part of the commodities family until centuries later but it was following the the life and customs of the room waldie and world
ah romuald visited forty off atlanta
some say he founded it that's less likely but he visited it shortly after it was founded
our romeo did make some foundations just down the mountain just around a few bends for instance seat for yeah
the little place where he bumped his own monks put him in prison as he was mulder on an the ultimate i've seen the prison i've seen the when i went there it's just down the road from forty of a man
couple mom turns and when i went there the farmer there a farmer her own on the land there have been fighting with the monks
and the government because he wanted to use the church which is almost all that's left for his capital one bank music as a barn
and the government were not was not letting him do that and we just seems to stay locked up and we had we have keys the mall recipes and good on once a while and it's a beautiful simple little church they're beautiful little old altar and there's this room off
after the sides for what it's like the sacristy and that's where he ronald was imprisoned for quite a quite a long time by his own box they thought he was crazy and had dunks are sexually indiscreet
things with which was absolutely preposterous at his age
at the instigation of this what was his name or on hours of romeo or something like that one of the monks who is out to get
oil anyway
ah whenever i can all bring in little tidbits that i have gathered during my three trips over there what memories i have of of places and of people i as i said i'm i'm self time i i'm no expert on things
come on his but i don't think we have any experts other than perhaps google the novice faster and librarian and come on the itself he is a an expert on commander these history and culture and thomas matters certain certainly nice a lot too
very very good on things come on the days i'm self taught and
i just when i just went and doggedly when i know but there in the summer was ninety three ninety four
ah i just read everything i could get my hands on and came back needing trifles
i headed down kind of ruined my vision of the value
and on
so as i say not an expert but i can give what i what i can give and down
slowly over the years of brutal were are amassing together in english at least a certain body and stuff so that we have something to you know contribute to the english world about who we are up to be in have been in the past
with this new book now coming out with the the press we can we can have something on our spirituality and not just the volumes on our history
also the various series of constitution so that we have
our again primary source material although there are not primary source material to go to the life of ronald or even necessarily to the
a room wall the and movement as such as a whole
these constitutions localized at kemal to the
give us primary focus on how they are actually living the life and what was their fury of monastic life
just down the centuries from from romeo certainly you know bless of rudolph's constitution special rudolf the fourth which republished in ten eighty and than ten eighty five are very significant
now this is just what sixty years after romulus death
that is constitutions of life had come alderley
ah were published we have them in english it's just sort of the an unpublished
informal translation and can have a library that you can find a library
ah the latin texts you'll find in the analysis do you all know if the enormous arm
anos as anonymous come on dangerous and modern man insists on the anonymous are nine humongous volumes
with ah sheepskin binding
published in ah the eighteenth century by to
ah too far important scholar monks are in in the house at venice at that time those at or sammy kaye late
do we do not murano in the venice lagoon anyway these they went to all our houses and all the foundations got into the archives collected every single thing they could get from all these centuries and a mask them into nine
huge volumes so we have constitutions stories lists of this letters on
guest book lists who visited what wearing ah
various chapter x and you know whole thing
anyway the we had with locked up in our
in our vault in the library and give want to see those just asked me and the born there were very lucky to have a have a copy of that
a local houses
yes yes one of the houses didn't i think it was san giorgio a garda but they got now they got the library from ah
naples naples close down i had already had to that the maple slider a number of things i miss going ask him out annually if we could have and then i found out the guard had already snatched dollops
for one thing i wanted to give it to volume history of far of
send mccaig in morocco
of the house of ironic and
by a franciscan and they have they got a whole library strong
anyway all the other houses have have analysed as well and they're probably summon around italy in the various
secular libraries you know i'm also we lost most of our most versatile government just took everything even the towns nearby for instance the when the qualities were kicked out a commander lee the towns nearby on the civic council's decreed that they could have the library and they wouldn't in trucked off
all our libraries this to have that stuff so you gotta pop popi bibi a non or and so on and the state libraries have our manuscripts and that priceless manuscripts including some things they don't have any use for of all ages it's more like a power trip than anything
but anyway it's their possession now we got some things back but i'm not an awful lot because probably quite a few copies of the analysis laying around italy in various corners and never looked at probably just gathering mold because it was his the passion
oh wait before the this the under napoleonic a suppression and then later on the italian national suppression so they were just look at to that when we hit the history sections so it was in the last century will excuse me not to centuries ago is the late mid and late eighteen hundreds
it's where this happened
ah but rudolph so you aren't the only constitutions we also have the constitutions of and third less of martin dirt and this isn't in the twelve hundreds
his a box of constitutions those march
and there are three three books of constitution
are called the fireworks and will give it to muslim by works dean years
so about the costumes anymore it was bought customers
ah after martin just a little bit down on the line gerard was prior to him on
add a fourth work
to those that already existed of mark
above again about changes in the customs come out and then down the line further
bonaventura bonaventure a farmer who was part general added yet another group and so you ended up with the five books of day more person
this is my next project and really translate from media or from the all those the latin are this five books of the customers from thirteenth fourteenth century and i'm kind of excited about it but i haven't started because i'm waiting for
this the galleys of this book to come and so i get that out of the way and bring it to close your and then start on my next project and this is what i'll be doing and we'll see what i can come up with maybe something fun and be something publishable
another important our primary sources the life of st peter jamie
by john loading lod i
and this i translated in nineteen ninety two so we have it in english is in the library
can also get it in italian or latin i think probably in french as well
but it certainly in two different italian versions and of course be the lacking in minion
just a few words about the analyse than and i will were called were closed for today and we'll talk about on
the background the tenth eleventh century background then next time before we get into wrong in to search this is the outline for wherever boring course
and basically that's an amalgam of stuff i've done
ah all piece together
my stuff i've published on our spirituality in history some of the translation i've done of course i gave on a commodities are artists lectures i gave on come on delays history in the workshop and some other stuff that hasn't been done anywhere but
i had and they fit it into this ah this framework so this is where we're going to go with that so next time act as young as you can see we'll talk about the tenth and eleventh century and just before we do that or before we closed for today i want to see a little more about the analyse kemal your lenses
the two fellers who did this
or me today
good alley and cost the dorm rooms start to see costs alone
that's probably why i am
today is cost the domain ah
it told me today in the early was born in the urging early eighteenth century he was at modano he was a teacher there and then became the novice master he was a up
bibliography for librarian at murano and the archivist
then they made him the chancellor to the app general and then abbott this is out a period where we had abbott's
and then he behaves himself became a general
and so cost the dawning or unsound or posted only was a a a contemporary confrere of metro dailies he was also teacher he was prior under miceli i became
aim followed him into the archives work also became chancellor to the epigenome also been out but he just sort of followed in the footsteps of of meter delhi and they were very close collaborators these two months of the to who travel then when they weren't busy being
you know abbott's whatever to all our houses and all those early foundation some of which had fallen apart or had gone down and tried to hunt down documentation in one man
all the foundations of the congregation doing research in the archives collecting as much as they could
and they modeled their work on the work being done in france at the time by moby young
and the on dusts who were doing this type of work about regarding he'd been addicted order been addicted saints the am
the maoist congregation in france was doing incredible work of collecting as much as they couldn't writing it all down and and doing research before was totally lost to history did an invaluable
work for the monastic world anyway our monks decided they wanted to mom model their work and commodities congregation and movement on this work by matteo
they came up with nine volumes
each volume of which contains a sort of general dissertation or particular points of commodities history or monasticism in general data other dog then the animals themselves so collections of you know in sort of the calendar year calendar of what who
where what's going on and what the general chapter did that year and get it edited and then a huge appendix in in the end of each line which has all the documentation that they collected that corroborates
in of the the analysis themselves
this work was encouraged very very strongly by poeple with the fourteenth at the time
it took the many many years to do the work and they published it no one volume at a time
yeah the last volume was published right around good death of miceli i don't know if he i think he had died before to last for he came up
one other of piece of secondary source material want to point out is a book that we have in the library and i have my own copy as well by videos after just set a date or
this came out
while i was at commendably the doing that year of reading or summer of reading
he wrote a book or he he he republished of basically dissertation a book entitled come alderley ended this isn't the time of course come alderley and its congregation from its origins to eleven eighty four history and documentation and it's got the
documents collected in it's there and it's a wonderful
source and resource for the study of early come onto the and it's fight with the bishop cool and how it developed into a congregation and will i'll talk a little bit about that when we get to the historical section this volume is very important and very interesting
if you're at all interested in come out of these history
you know for the necessary preliminary work to understanding our our heritage our video vitals a volume here is is very significant
okay that's enough for this time and then so so next time them will start on on the actual sort of historical framework into which romulus and peter damian found themselves inserted
so many questions about what we're gonna do or how
for any volunteers but special projects you want to do even though i'm not going to assignment
publishing papers something the next couple of weeks
during your free time
previous the more
the coronation
in colombia
or mean you want to find those books hundred accuracy where he said
what is they this tool for method one is a
what is it
yeah they just made a it's the only host it's really doing well and multicolor on right now they just made a daughter foundation also in south america i think argentina knit group is a real fear united
the problem with all that
i it i
how to get into this new diplomatic way there's so much bad feeling between our congregations and so much of it is based on total ignorance of each other but well this is the way we're supposed to feel that type of thing you know
they have some great people
and they but they also have people who are as pig headed the stubborn and biases people in our propagation and their has this just been a lot of blockage to to in understanding and whatnot there seems to be under manner on lot more coming together and trying to do
some things
the coronation themselves are afraid that they're going to be forced into our congregation
by wrong the same way they settle bites were in the nineteen thirties and they're a little scared right now they're they're really low going down in numbers and
i know we're pretty distant from each other in our interpretations even in our lifestyle their lifestyle is very regimented
and down very closed
ah great people the i was a dazzling ohio's wonderful man he started out here and found it too lax and so when there is prior there now
i i'm i right to bounce off once in awhile and i do all i can to encourage our
cooperation this groups two groups you know i in this dates back to when i gave them their annual retreat out of personally i gave them up a weeks retreat on our history and our spirituality
commodities are commodities together or come out with his heritage and i'm
i my hope is that under a man who were those things would just good
closer in
more if you killed but you always have those biases that you have to deal with even the north in are among our group right year people don't even know coordinate a never been accredited and yet you'll hear him say disparaging remarks or something is only because they've heard some rumors some little story or anecdote
you know that's so that's what it's based on what if they have some we're people and natalia
this very good men to
yeah so will mean next i guess thursday it'll become the unless something happens to my moved to wednesday

why was chairman ah all sure you want
the future make that first trip to and on of zagging go the second so
do you want to keep their secular media always see who needs it can kevin's kevin has been to come onto the at on last time he was over there when he was studying in iran while know maybe it was just said
and beads only been to san gregorio but maybe fish has been to a fish was am either fun to have a lot of work now odorless so maybe was mother
so maybe he doesn't need it well we'll see
it's a nice little from nice photography
and when we get to come on the
i will go through this and i'll point out that stuff that i'm actually lecturing on
various parts of the place
good excuse that's still growing never even my hip zone