Church Life in the 11th & 12th Centuries

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Camaldolese History Class, "Church Life in the 10th & 11th Centuries" (during Romuald and Peter Damian's time).



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ah so this this time the second session i'd like to talk a little bit of with templates than tenth and eleventh centuries to give some background and some idea of what we're working with when we're talking about
how is the church life in the at the time of rom your computer game
what what are the problems between the the church and state during these are crucial centuries amazing time
i i bought and put into the library of a book entitled one thousand a d was published when the whole who plough about the millennium
has come up and so they published what it was like a first millennium and of course this is exactly when our our people were
where around and doing their thing especially ronald and so on
if it's it's the actual number one oad and it's an interesting a little book and it gives you some idea of some of the things going on at better
certainly one of the main problems are going on at that time is is answering the question was how do we how do we ensure that the who the next emperor will be so how to how to ensure a succession of the imperial
crown of course there's all kinds of people fighting and factions fighting over the imperium ah during this time
and a correlated question which comes into focus than during this time a little bit down the line but during the lifetime certainly of peter damian
ah is who who makes the pope who is the pope maker
is it the king is it the the emperor
what do we do because for a while here as we will see it is indeed the emperor who names the pope
does the the problem of the succession of the imperial crown comes into question comes into focus quite clearly ah during the life of romulus when his good friend out of the third dies at the tender age of what twenty three or something like that and
he ended the the empire's thrown into a quandary what to do
how do we how do we solve this because they weren't ready for it and they didn't have an automatic successor because he died childless
generally speaking at this time the nobility are living in a futile world u d a few door and some of them in a few tile world
in the pit in this world picture of the ah
of the feudalistic
the local lord the local ruler is it is the power which holds the keys to a certainly happiness or sadness but also often to life and death without recourse often let alone taxation
justice and so forth
and so the local territory of the noble is his personal fief his personal
property and everything that lives within it is his property
the time of constant petty wars every little hoo ha
wages war against the who ha next door and they're all trying to align themselves with powerful who has so that they don't get overwhelmed by
the other hoo ha and so you have everybody who hang around and often families are aligning themselves strategically through a marriage precisely for this reason well then if we get in trouble this whole family will come into kim come into our side
and stem off the war and of course there's a constant need of money i need for money then because this constant war and you can't wage war without paying the troops without feeding the troops feeding the horses
bribing off people
paying a purchasing more who has than you have already gathered around yourself what does this who ha business to carry this would be today's theme ha
give me another word i use it a potent dates with our
so much of the so-called justice of the day dependent upon money
whether you had at first of all
or whether you could you could pay it as a bribe secondly or or get it somewhere to stem off what one could call justice and quotes and within this church structure it's not much different at times unfortunately because you have people buying their ways
a's into embassies bishoprics
and so for benefices
those who have enough money
can have the power both the civil and in the religious rounds now this isn't across the board but i've unfortunately during this time within the church at certain times in this period it's the majority who are buying their way it's not the exception
the people who are falling into sydney are at the majority
it's incredible
they don't think anything of it
even though it's been condemned even though it's quite clearly on the books as an absolute no-go
often during this time whether you were pro emperor or anti emperor often depended upon either what family you were in or what who hoc group you belong to
because there are constant factions on the imperial stage as well play that's why you have during this time any given emperor
really spending his entire realm or his entire reign fighting off ah
usurpers or pretenders or anti imperial forces or whatever
it's not a good time for for peace this was her to religious and ethnic communities that was her lions absolutely well certainly if if they're abbott's and and bishops and whatnot were politically aligned to to some of them stayed apart but often the case is true
this and and you'd find monks and bishops being dragged off to war also if they were aligned
so unfortunately the church at this time is a product of its own day and when it came to papal elections
ah once again you have family factions literally waging war over who's going to be pope
it is a time
that is rife with susan
at one point during this period
during the time of peter damian you have three popes
at the same time
benedict the nine gregory this that sylvester the third all of them in wrong
you have you have benedick who was a dissolute a young man
a very violent and with a lot of pole and a lot of who has around him who make him pope
and he is
where's he's let's say he's in the lateran palace
at this time so he's pope of the latter
across the city you have gregory the sixth who's a respected old man
peter damian just loved him and was very happy when another group elected him pope at this time to
despite benedick the night being declaim claim or proclaimed put by this other group and they installed him at i think it was met murray and majority yes and this fella was an arch priest of the city he wasn't just a young violent bloke like this other one this is an oath
all revered arch priests who it turns out down the mind unfortunately
paid his way into this election
he listened to a relative who urged it on him and it seems true that he actually and unfortunately for peter damian peter davies the arch foe of seventy peter damian sends a congratulatory letter to greg the sixth at santa maria
mature audiences wonderful wonderful that your pope and then later it comes out that he bought his way into the office you have to anti hopes and then you have service to the third
and so as to the third is elected by yet another faction the the crescendo the family who install him at the vatican
oh what would be the vatican at this time
anthony peters and so you have three anti pope's call them that there are three pope's same time all on wrong
this is just an example by the way this happens more than once during during these centuries
and the only way they get out of this bass is to make yet a fourth pump
and the one who does it is the emperor the emperor says enough of this crap and he proclaims wanted his consorts who takes the name clement second who ends up being a fine pope short lived a fine and then that emperor days for pope's in a row
poor devils is the second who is also close to the emperor but only lived twenty three days of his papacy and the died
right away we think well and obviously poison because so many of them were but that was mainly a little later and it seems that he died of malaria actually not
i'm not do any misdeed among the mobility or within the ranks of the clergy
okay just in it as an example of are the kind of ness that they have to do and why they if you read the letters of saints or the church fathers this time before you had any church mother's raining until hildegard comes on the scene
why they're constantly duchene on declaiming these things that are going on and then screaming about this pope or that bishop for one not well many of them what were indeed anti hopes are so supporters of the anti pope's
so you have you have a church that's badly need of reform certainly need of some kind of centralized authority and a machine set up so that you can ensure succession now we're on the church you know in the state of holds true to certainly
if you need to set up with something that ensures succession the validity and and sort of how to go about things
it's not all dark at this time for one shining our area it within the church is monastic distance
monastic reforms are a dime a dozen of these days and the road certainly you're familiar with korea which is is going on at this time
height had eleven hundred eighty nine monasteries within its refuge not all peak of reform but that many within its or following at this
you know a major part of the before to have our own houses of our history that come into this come into play here are some simple the naughty class a to start cyber that
where romulus first became a monk
kusa crucial in southern france
where old gathered around himself a small group of soldiers after he floated as after they like fitness and lip the monastic life in the forest on the mountain just outside the monastery and their became
invested or imbued with the
up with being a spiritual master for others
but couldn't wasn't there and of peter damian later on was actually sent could be as a cardinal was one of his main missions had the number of them
to settle a dispute between clooney and the local bishop who wanted power over to a where you saw cool news was mense power within the church and the local bishop thought he wanted some of that he wanted some of that control
and so peter david was sent by the whole truth from the to be a trouble shooter and he also will see later in the such lungs and say mouth
ah those of another good monastic reform going on what ren
both in southern oregon and northern europe and nor in the northern part of the rent gore's attic
and in the southern part crime
this this there's a new book coming out it's already over a year passed its do publication date by oxford and i've already pre-ordered a copy on this gore's before
which is which would be very interesting because it's time of our own beginnings and there's going to be some overlap on its own it should be good for our library anyway it'll be interesting to see some of the times that
i listed down in switzerland is also seat before
this time
and then shortly login form before need to reform which israel lobby for one specifically
and the valid roger swarm of for bertie
all of these wonder wonderful monastic reforms within a church that is badly and need itself
of reform
and when the time comes for that
need for reformation to to be answered it's good it's going to take place within what is called gregorian or hildebrand died before only because greg me the seventh name before he was pope was hildebrand
very powerful man within the church for decades
prior to his elevation to the papers
why they bring data
oh this gregorian reform
the that set up for the church answering the questions how do we elect a pope how do we effect reform within the church how do we make people listen how do we reign in a renegade clerics how do we prevent this from
happening or the one for all of that he based on the monastic reforms that were in in effect and so basically what we have happen at this time in which in the church history is that the church is reformed
quote unquote monastic lee that is the reforms that are going to take place during this time are based on the things that worked on the monastic scale within within the monastic reforms
ah lay industry so said a little bit about this lay investiture remember what they invested choose
well just just think of it of them investiture
lay investiture what's going on there there's something that's not right who's being invested
know if it's common people in this case kings and who are who are naming and consecrating the the bishops and it's it's a real a real problem that will come into come into play here
i'm not only on the people
paypal plateau but also local kings and rulers who are naming bishops
to seize and that's and without recourse i mean that's just the it is king name says that fellows the bishop
lay investiture goes a little bit beyond that in fact
ah lay investiture is not just something
precariously tossed into the mix here there's a basis for this this basis for the king having this kind of power because during this time and for centuries prior to and certainly afterwards the king is low
looked upon as being also the vicar of christ
for the people literally and so who else is who already have already has power over everything else why wouldn't he have that kind of power to name the bishop power over the church as well they were called victories of christ just like the pope said the
phrase that describes the pope nowadays and the kings were over bishops
but of course reformers within the church are asking themselves the question how can be
how can we stabilize and centralized stabilise the papacy
and then by way of extension bishoprics and local church power without
having the church become just another department within the imperium
without just another political branch without becoming another political branch and that where this comes in this is when gregory's reform really takes root and starks through a series of local senate's it's is he just sends out packed team's mission teams
our who hold local sentence for any given area and effect down to earth
reforms for whatever's going on in that territory
makes decrees from his own such increasingly more centralized power within a church that is coming to come to him and supporting him so a lot of the stuff that i was talking about prior to this our family factions
is and you know
the hoo ha business despite all of that people are leaving that and coming to the center coming to gregory the seven and supporting him to give something stabilized and get the church are under wraps and get the you don't get a lot of the needed reforms
and so that's how he did it and he's hidden really manage to re-established papal supremacy
this whole business of lay investiture and that's why i had this here on renee one of the first things you mentioned because of recorded of worms and eleven twenty two it finally comes to head
and as if an infected that the final compromise between the temporal and the religious spheres of power on at on this scale
okay any questions will help before i go into the heresies of the day
in getting a general feel for this times in which our our own
reformers come into being as well as some others
okay the two biggies at this time r simonyi
and nikolai autism or a it's also wants to see referred to as nicola lie at ten isn't used to like nipper why it is
if if you keep if and if you remember basically the to problems heretical a at this time are paying for
church power paying for church power and or or having sexual problems
this is nicola nikolai autism is all sexual stuff all clumped together and called nikolai autism
if you remember that money our money insects than you've got the to him and probably holds today to it's well
she's think about it money insects run through her out
ah seventy
symphony or you know is already in effect before our people come up before romulus and and peter damian both of whom become leading force against seventy
long before they came on the scene this was already going on
ob but they became along with john john while bertie
loud marks outspoken our opponents to the general practice at the time that was the scandal of this is just as mix the isn't the exceptional thing the general majority of people at certain periods during this time from the pope when i'm down
our our seminar
for instance i mentioned to gregory the sexes seminar he bought his way and because he was an anti pope
i just think of all the ones they haven't found out about
no i mean a lot of buddy was passed to under the table under the throne you know and that no one knew about
it it was just sort of a you know i mean this is the way the world when the religious world as well
john wall bertie was a really proclaimed himself anti seven cool ah right at some in the antrum in florence heath yeah well and he he they kicked him out and he he's pitching of shook the dust off his feet
and said enough of this crap because the bishop himself or excuse me the abbot himself was seminar called right there it's time many otto
as well as the bishop actually in us of the time
so we got in trouble with to all forms and he beat feet on their just an example here's the type of legislation enacted by the pope's during this period this is legislation from pope the other night raincoat
is one of those the third one appointed by the emperor to end this this kind of stuff quote ten fifty nine know cleric or priest shall receive a church from lane then in any fashion
whether freely or at a price
no one shall receive the habit of a monk in the hope or with the promise of becoming an abbott
no priest shall hold two churches at the same time for the money
no one shall be ordained or promoted to any increase the ecclesiastical office by seminyak or heresy to remember is not just to
it's just got a no it's actual heresy and the scandal of this time is that it's been heresy and they're still doing it the majority of people are doing and majority of the church at times here are either heretical themselves or under powers who are heretical
everybody's looking back looking for kickbacks
and you've gotten wind up with a lot of not necessarily bishops but a lot of parish priests who are who are ordained they bought their way or their fathers bought their way
into that office or the father's but for them that office sometimes it's dynastic your father to son to father the son because they are they're all married to having children
now you end up with this whole group of can this just dr peter damian crazy who can't even write or read do not know that can even do the math the latin latin of the mass and yet pretend for the money for the for
to the benefits and it's it just goes on and on as if what's the problem you know this is the way things are done
well anyway it's it's not a good thing the two men
photos of symphony
who who work with the pope's to do away with it are peter damian and humbert both cardinals of time cardinal peter damian cardinal humbard of silver canada both of whom are outspoken foes of seventy who
have written tracks
against seventy peter damian himself was again a trouble shooter not just with
on the monastic seen it to me but also the pope's troubleshooter he sends them into cities that have guns just i mean it's obviously a similar article and everyone's has done it and everyone's standing there are guilty of heresy and they're all in all of the lighters or heretical of the whole business peter damian
get sent him there to clean up these messes a lot of them
for instance to milan he was sent to me learn and and he knew that when he was going to move on that he would have to
rain in some very very powerful people who had bought their ways into church office
and he knew he had to be the the i'm the bad guy who had committed clean up the mess was horrified when it got to to milan saw the evidence of what had happened what had been going on listened to people who were in the know discovered that everyone in milan the
all think the whole city and it's inviting all the clerks every one of them were similar
and he had to pit himself against every single person
injustice with ecclesiastical power many of whom granted wanted to rectify things wanted to get out from under it in not even have a secret a secretly heretical standing but if that's the kind of thing he had to deal with the archbishop was
obviously to everyone a flagrantly seminar article
and in for it for not only for the ecclesiastical power but for the money
nikolai autism this a this word refers to our it gets its name from revelation chapter two
were you referred to be where it refers to the advocates of returning to pagan worship in the book of revelation
there are if you go just down the line a couple of centuries there are other people who will say well actually what's referred to nicholas of alexandria who did you did it did our scholars tend to say that even if you would go by that than word still comes from the use of in in revelation
one to and they highly doubt where those like nicholas of alexandria even existed in the third century anyway that's we've got the word and so when it refers to his any kind of a sexual aberration going on in the clergy ah during the middle ages and
it's during the middle ages that this term becomes vogue and so i already mentioned one ah one part of nikolai autism during the ah eleventh century and that is you have all these priests who are indeed married
and if they aren't married
legally they're living with concubines they have their mistresses often living right there in the rectory with them what can be called directory
you have
gay priests who have formed their own little communities two and three for sexual purposes
so you have you have everybody getting it one way or another if they can and this shouldn't be
ah surprising to us knowing that this knowing the situation that many of these people are just lay men who have either had office forced on them but it by by father who wanted to place all the sons and various and get them all set up and who don't want to be priests to begin when
or or people who have bought in the office themselves again just for the power just for the financial stability that it gibbs and so you get all these people why should they worry about whether they have a mistress or not you know given the search
i'm stances of their state of being to begin with
and so this too is widespread not universal but widespread and peter damian
just rails rails against this sort of thing much of which is right wrong right around him
local priests around him ah and in some ways he he rails even even more about the absolute ignorance of the clergy in this day again because many of them don't know how to read or write they they just had this office given them by
by family or they paid their own way into it
again pope leo the nine ten fifty nine legislation imagine having to legislate this no one shall hear the mass of a priest who he knows for certain keeps a concubine or has a woman living with him
so what does this do you have the pope saying you can't even go
to amass you can even you can even acknowledge that this person is really a priest well you have all these people holding these offices and you have the pulp saying this is the only way we're going to stamp this out is that people have to pull away from this pull away from the heresy are having anything to do with it
so that we can begin a new
trump the from the grass grass up
as we if if you look into the life of peter damian especially but also wrong
you're going to see them closely aligned with these parts especially peter damian
who has among his supporters to summarize some of these bulbs pope's from use him over and over and over again
as their troubleshooter
and many of these people
are written to by peter debut
either because they should be doing something or because they did something which pleased peter damian are he's encouraging to down as the power behind power on the throne to
effect certain changes here and there specified
peter damian in many ways spent his entire life doing this sort of thing
ah fill certainly a fellow with a lot of passion
one of these lectures or the or be devoid of devoting to peter james himself this is free from nowhere we're going as topical
index were outline on i just want to mention now that i'm in this man is incredible energy that he he gave to church reform and monastic reform and did so much ah but he must have been incredible bugbear to live with
ah although there's there's evidence again that he was just revered by his fellow monks but maybe you know maybe he was on the road enough months at a time that ah
that that could be
because his i don't know how what what it would be like to be living with are under ah a prior like peter damian
who are
doesn't just scream
at the outside but about he he's he's constantly the perfectionist
oh robbie
yeah i'm done with today's lecture as as as such some of this period is go to the for get worse
linear succession
but was one kid
well you mean how they how they finally got one were another historic river
a route was down
answer apostolic succession
see it this doesn't come into play until here this is all along the the you have all these problems going on and until this reform comes down and says look we've got to address this brain into the church together they decide that the college of cardinals as such as going to do the the allow
option and ensure that existed for succession from here on
until then you didn't have that
come on i live out of the or a whole
all beyond this this was an art piece of wrong good gun i also have a valid episcopal reputation
but this stellar wasn't as film as a lemon and then suddenly the have everything you know if it it was for money this fellow unfortunately well when one could question whether it was valid piss couple or the nation because he evidently ended up paying his way under the table as an old are
church priest
wall and this one resumes good person to
it's what i already was efficient
down the road though we're going to have even worse situations you know
jerk just think of when you have the avignon papacy going on as good as many again as three antique bulbs and all what it all with their college of cardinals i mean all each for flocked around themselves like the you know their whole entourage and you have in some cases saints on
either side and people rallying around
and it becomes a real mess so this doesn't
and the mess but at least it
a job whether history listening to it or not and these two sets up the apparatus whereby the ah church can be assured the succession paypal succession unfortunately there on get not only not only our bishops and people the local people who improve
isn't the electors until they get their way and their candidate you also have occasions where you have rulers lay rulers during the same not you liked this one or you're not coming out
this is reversed
good loves
it's an entire the camera model students like this i mean
so have called serves
good where are these products for bought your subway koreans came back big government at twenty years ago and will be all talk and buddhist monasteries there and twenty years later to the power positions happens warren buddhist monasteries they have
ski mask couple years ago to pencil research attention won't last
standard curriculum
yeah i just it is an array of his words you're lucky
well theological
but i am a contract with this is real stimulus for some reason
on and it's going to be an ongoing the say this
session is watch your show oh yes
we do we do have a line that we can point to
police in brackets and point to hear me now but and this this really does on the cover a couple of years we have you this thing i'm going in fact this guy comes back to the throne three times one time kids this one i'm sitting having depending on who which family has more of arms of the time
square yeah one enters and even within the succession there are a number of them who were poisoned a number of them who absolutely dissolute down the couple centuries down the line you know
it's not a it's not a not a shiny facet of our of our church
and yet
and yet here if we want to get into fear lodge the a theological justification the churches the people and and you know you do have the ruling faction and that whole business about power and how to take care of everything but really theologically the church the people gathered round the altar and cross of christ and so
you know that's where we have to take refuge anyway because all of this not that all of those
there's going to come back again and again and again
the history of the church even into fifteen sixteen seventeen hundreds you have some know meal questionable things going on on the papacy
okay or it's next time and will actually talk about ronald ronald of ravenna
and that's the day the morning after i get back wednesday the sixteenth will have class because thursday is the wreck day