no we noticed a different concept centers
our history which is something that anyone can verify about you when you were born in one town but the years of school you did because the parents sauna and then there's this mysterious inner history it can only be arrived at by a kind of a personal revelation that is a personal being out for putting out of you
your heart to another now this kind of spirituality class classroom more about focused on that in history of the christian community but then we other distinctions between secular history or nazi to ensure lie in dutch
president forward and on this and a salvation history abraham isaac jacob joseph moses david
right up to our lord and all the acts of the apostles
now we feel there's in this current it's with disgust among theologians the relation between his courage all the rest of history but certainly this current for us in some senses salvific and it goes right through the life of the church right to the epstein fathers the early fathers and medieval right up to our own time we feel that there is this
god has come down into our history which is where we really live our human life is present there and he's transforming it from within a given icing it and that's what we want to focus on some history now we're talking about again not any kind of stupid question history and this qualification is
decisive and christians virtuality so such as spiritually general and then we give kind of christian trappings to work but we could take away the trappings and a language for the same stub substance use buddhists trappings of language or muslim nor several christianity from within makes his very
special we want
would that how is christ decisive prescription with the basic peter prayer while every religion is prayer meditation and religion as meditation technique six asceticism more eat less there's all sorts of things that are shared by all the great religions we should rejoice in there but what makes christian spirituality
very unique somehow decisive also for the others are we want to remain on that level of the uniqueness of christianity
what is relationship if we're going to study then the history of christian spirituality i what's relationship produce a spiritually with other disciplines like theology you might study document these sort of things this is also discussed is it that the church announces a dogma and then in white
of that we live our spirituality the church proclaims christ is the son of god and then we shape or spirituality that reflects this centrality of christ or the resurrection the body or transubstantiation therefore we focus this is one model that
first comes dogma and then come spirituality
first comes theology thinking through our faith and then spirituality so in this model of spirituality other secondary it's derived comes from a sad moment
now there's another model for fridge and spirituality is prime if you mean by spirituality not just pious
repetitions of formula or something when when taking
less soup or something but if you mean living the christ mystery if this is true then
these darkness don't just fall out of heaven knows sort of prepackaged dumping a third heaven or something there thought through work through by theologians by church authority in council through the lived experience of church members now this lived experience is spirituality so in this model you see to come eventually to find cr
rice is the central america because they lived this in their prayer in their faith in their home so in this model spirituality would be primary and from lived spiritual experience would come theology would come dogma indeed
athanasius can be so committed to on the full christology against some kind of aerial dilution because he has his profound lived experience in christ is our savior you must be truly the son of a living god truly god of god light of light
so i don't want to see the primacy here of lived experience which is what we need view trolley and served a theology and dogma follows upon this so this is a different princeton savar it's as if you are a theologian you truly pray and if you truly pray you are a theologian
he was stressing the theology than would come out of a lived experience this is the way the early fathers saw later in the kind of decadent of major scholastic period not the early scholastic period but the called the new scholasticism you get theology is a kind of an intellectual game and
it rather arid and and you can get your doctorate in theology without being too committed to prayer even which is a different thing and then you distinguish between dogmatic theology here and spirituality there and it's very nice to get them together but it's you can do the one without the other and then the reaction is aunt
die intellectual and so when you want to live your spirituality whatever without ever looking into a book because books are simply full of arid notions it
so you can pry do they distract you from prayers and so at a certain point in the later middle ages to get a split their ads patrol he goes one way and of theology and doctrine go another and little dangerous but the earliest heritage is to keep these
together the first theologian his college of saint john the theologian john the evangelist because his gospel is theology and this gospel is this lived experience of the risen christ it would seem my think as a real thing have them both together it's almost it's very hard to say which comes first it's like the chicken and eight it seems
athanasius would first be taught you know it's catechism whatever that he lived out and then you'd be able to produce profound or insights into doctrine and seemed like a one would work on the other it certainly a self nourishing thing and it's hard to come with up with tell which keeper but you said he was taught his catechism by cool well i mean he would have been taught as as a cat acumen with me up
that will reduce like nineteen it but out the full theology of nice seeing you see was being debated and someone had to work it out church authorities had to work out explicit terms which hadn't been formulated in those terms before there's a time when the church proclaims and transubstantiation
and two centuries before the term might not be known now where does that term come out of now in this mood comes out elliptic lived so you can make a kind of a case that the the one proceeds the other i think you're right essentially at least get them together and at least and once you get the doctrine and it certainly sustains guides know
nourishes spirituality if it's good theology and it's good to again one of the dangers of a later theology is it's doesn't always seem to nourish that much spirituality of the theology we got it behind the preach preacher for instance very very technical scholastic care
gary's over one thing or another that that don't seem that related too much of the lived christian life now that's a kind of a danger one can get into but now
i'm thomas merton for instance rights faith is and here i think he uses faith in the kind of limp dicks thing of as he makes clear you're living on the christ mr so his is years equivalent to spirituality faith is the presence of god's truth in us by our response
by kind of wedding a wills and hearts in which he has revealed his love to us and his saving action and we have responded saying yes so this wedding of worlds and heart so this is for each realm he says this is deeper than a conceptual idea because deeper than the viola
logical truth it is rooted in life itself
now that's a little ambiguous how it goes deeper than theological truth it's it's one true and theological expression is one expression of it and kind of lived a commitment is another but in any case it's clear where he said and missing but i wanted just to bring up the issue of where to situate christian spirituality really
due to other disciplines and studies and games and i think you can at least the minimal cases it is very important it's recorded for catholic orthodox faith it's also very very important for the the really gutsy heresies if you look at that really challenging heresies right through the life of the true
search they're usually focus not on some abstract idea but on some form of spirituality that's gone slightly a monk
a gnosticism in the early church was essentially will see in this history certainly a wanting to live spiritually all the way
and he was someone or there was said to yeah it's nice to read the bible and who those doctrines and center but there's a deeper truth to branch you haven't penetrated and so little secret and if our group that's more committed christians with with deeper insight and expense we know these truths now if you'll join us will tell you them
so gnosticism is essentially a spirituality proposal will see that later it's not arab theology plagiarism which is that comes out of monastic life is essentially yes anguish to fully commit myself in all my actions
efforts and to to living christian spirituality seriously and he's got slightly quiet is a much later is again a centrally a spirituality of god is omnipotent it is god who takes the initiative is god and was purified nutmeg me myself and it gets
janssens
artemisia essentially spirituality comes out about monastery convent it was extremely severe an austere and i set a goal and contemplative etc since she's pure joy and we're still suffering that one but solid catholic theology in its orthodox comes out of it
authentically lives spirituality and think you could argue that and also heresy comes out of a partially lived spirituality spirituality gifts decisive and if you've been to debate people into partial spirituality is are sparse choppy out often you've got to start this deeper level in the past when the problems we me
with our so-called apologetics we would throw syllogism said people are very clever syllogism or but it didn't get the people were they were living
if you find it he'd be on the road use some a mini drops through here for a few days and he's probably do a little zen and into a little yoga and a little jaunt across etc
if you're gonna talk to him it can't be a level of abstract of theology it has to be on this primal level of lived and that will then maybe straightened up of theology if it gets his for the right
anyway up something to work through and the we have all sorts of hurts the boonies it's essentially proposal for spirituality very very demanding proposals spring of mine studied recent depth smith and book on and he says it's basically a a weird form of monasticism a global manassas is every member
the movies he gives every minute of his day all of his money all that is time full obedience we have a kind of uncomfortable catholic christianity and the parents shouldn't go in sunday morning and you put in a darling plate and so forth and then you go back to your own family live at this is for commitment all the way and these people go there and
they want and they want authority and they want a very richard aesthetical and moral life etc it's a quest for spirituality and it's are going elsewhere and not to us we gotta ask why
as would burn coming up here and has been a year ago and data guys coming and hundred really pull and can not very interesting guy and he was into all sorts of things buddhism and hinduism is a born catholic bids were traumatized is really parochial school years and it left it can
vince that catholicism is simply bingo games and very rigid the moral things that can't really be lived anyway and a kind of nasty angry sisters and things and if you want to get really deep wisdom that permit you to live in serenity with all the cosmos in and na
nonviolent also catholics are marines who go out and kill people in movies and crusades and things but if you want a serene loving nonviolent a holistic union with the all of you go away from christian so there again of not primarily starting with i don't believe that
doctrine it was affirmed by the council of nicea lot which you know nothing but i don't like the way this particular way of living christianity was presented to me and doesn't it's not where i met in my deepest spiritual aspirations so that's a challenge so what i'm suggesting this when we work through the history christian school
actually it's not terribly secondary or derived or a but it's it's pretty crucial at all levels for us and for dealing with other exceed central questions comments junctions
so we're going to do a history of christian spirituality if we were going to do a history of the republic of the united states we might begin in the the revolution we might begin at the end of the revolution with the constitution but we'd start in that area we know where we're beginning or if we wanted
to start a history the ford motor company would start with me for the first and then where you start a history of christian spirituality discuss their master
what does it really began
well
in what sense is a christian then
so
that's a crisis decisive and christ certainly is a sort of david christ is the messiah expected so i think of both of you are right now there are books around the don't start in either place or don't know if you know that book canon in true
job of the city in the desert it's an interpretation of chris of the history of christian spiritual it says christian spirituality begins with desert fathers before that you don't have really spirituality you have proclaiming of of the good news and missionary efforts but spirituality is a kind of reflexive effort
to live in a wholly way this begins with a desert fathers and their couple of others who say this is a christian spirituality begins one says with clement of alexandria ah
now our thesis the would be absolutely with the word of god and with christ and as christ of is preceded by and prepared for by the old testament in the old testament so this is very very important
it's patrol is a very demanding thing if you're going to do it all the way into perfect dessert heavenly father is perfect and take up your cross and for me so i think the ultimate foundation for all this effort on our part can't be a habit puff notes use or it can't be a habit moses or it can't be
the clement of alexandria some wise to choose helping us become more fully you can only be the word of god and really saves us
so if we will wanted to do this course in a rigorous way we'd want to go all through the old testament new testament all the different currencies spirituality that are there and paul and in john and therein the priscilla pure etc etc now we're not going to do that simply because awfully you do that every day with the hearing of the word of god in the
office of the proclaiming the word of god in the homily etc this is the roots of our christian spirituality and of all the history of christians future and the early fathers and the later five is especially scientists when when they wrote books on prayer they were primarily we'll see
meditation on the word of god
origin talks about on prayer what he does is he sees what jesus says about prayer in the gospels and then he goes into a long meditation on the our father entered to hinder the saint cyprian does seem to this is what christian spirituality is about going back to the would of god
which is decisive which is salvific which is nourishment
remember what scripture itself says about itself for us up
i'm someone eighteen lamp to my feet is your word or your and a light to my hair so spirituality is this journey to the father and we need a light and we need a lamp and that is god's word
hebrews four twelve for the word of god is living an operative sharper than need to edge sword piercing as far as a division of soul and spirit able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart to the depths of the heart i think improvements talked a bit about that category too really
live or spirituality now bit of notices may say a great deal it'll help me but can penetrate right to the gaps to help me do this discernment which decisive that's the living room car
we light need a guide we need nourishment to journey man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of god systems are so a scripture the word of god as nourishment as strength to go on as foundation for our whole spiritual edifice
it's he who hears my words and keeps them is like a wise man who builds his house in iraq rains came winds blue etc so many many other texts about the word of god which guides as nourishes us
bounds as and fulfilled system sources course the word of god on his christ and as the father's sake of this one word sums up all the words and so it's going through those words we get to christ who is the cornerstone the axis the alpha and omega of our spiritual so
we're gonna do a history christian spirituality well we'd now spent several years on scripture but you have other scripture class is just so what i'm trying to do knows racial consciousness to perceive what we're doing here in relation to that that that is a real foundation of this and if we don't do that it's simply because you're getting and elsewhere in presumably
a too much repetition isn't that helpful
there's a sister in my course of his through patients which only me up accurately and she told me she'd taken another course just like this history percents for showing nose years course and two hours a week etc and the professor at the end of the year still hadn't gotten out of the new testament he wanted to but their just
i got so we're going to get out a new testament today but i didn't want to stress that point them out the council also it's very very petty control fabric of bringing this back to our attention
the for beautiful document on revelation
chapter six sacred scripture in the life of the church the church has always venerated the diet divine scriptures just as she been reached the body of the lord since from the table of both the word of god and the body of christ she receives unceasingly and offers to the faithful the bread of life
this especially with sacred language so here's this food that nourishes us eucharist and the word
he you me down a little and the force and power in the word of god is so great it remains the support and energy of the church we need strength to do spirituality not just someone telling us do this do that to that many teens but we need the inner strength to do this and this comes to us from
the word of god support and energy the church the strength of faith for her son's the food of the soul the pure and perennial source of the spiritual by so it's quite explicit the perennial source of our spiritual life is the word of god it's not clement of
alexandria it's not about obvious it's not the case your father's they will help us but these source is the would have got so if we wanted to a history of christian spiritual we start with the source and you've been doing that since you've been here and so should be catholics and christians consequently these words are perfectly applicable the sacred
scripture for the word of god is living and efficient and is able to build up and give the inheritance among all a sanctified hebrews were twelve x twenty nineteen so
having said had a virgin you always to pull back to the source of
why don't we then move on to a first phase after which is and after the word of god which is so called apostolic funds a few more introductory note suits
spirituality or spirituality were doing that history of christian spirituality should we add an s make it the plural because we talk about of spirituality the desert spirituality of benedict and spiritually basil franciscan spirituality dominican carmelite lace virtuality
today the about women's spirituality liberation through all these things so
presumably there's some sort of distinction between franciscan spirituality and balcony spiritual so may we need a pearl there and this has also debated among the experts with an early like so if you take everyone here at this table every one's spirituality will be different are you will immediately
ultimately get to that point
that is a a certain group meets their spirituality but if you look very carefully at everyone in that group everyone is unique and has his own particular gift his own particular qualities and weaknesses it's and so that the the ultimate of this theme of the pluralism of spiritual these gets to that point there's as many spree child is in as earth
is and i suspect this is true if i were to ask you each take a sheet of paper without looking at the other person right be primary elements of your spirituality what comes first what comes second what concert i think the papers might be different
so there's i still don't i think the teacher lights and i have him he would say we're going to write about spirit out who had said what that's right onto to out now why would he say that it it's just want spirit ottawa
experience the one spirit the one lord one savior one baptism system pole so there's this paradox but then why do we talk about franciscan spirituality is distinct from come elderly is distinct from
jesuit are we judge watson
oh
in one spirit but there is a diversity there isn't there jesuits for instance are forbidden to spur they were by their founder ignatius ignatius supposed to say their office together
we say they're on his ticket
just as an example pen

right and for the explanation independence right that's the basic dialectic that's right back there soda salt and she go back to scripture noticing
right
one body many members and each numbered supports is quite different from the other the i is not the hand is not the foot but there is the one body so you can stress either one
so way and some theologians talk about is objectively there is the one christ to has saved us to the one spirit is the one faith we are incorporating pricing the one baptism central so you can talk about this one perennial spirituality and francis luis borges pushes is very much than you new stresses that franciscan
and so on the objective salvific is a kind of font of our redemption there is the one spirituality that's basically the one spirit who sanctifies us it's presented us
but on the level of the way each of us on assimilates could receives and lives that according to our own unique gift limits possibilities personality ah
are st francis of assisi is very different from of thomas acquaintance
and even in st francis compare with princess fcc is very different from bonaventure and they're both saints
ah said reviews is very different from st peter damian
and they're both camellia sort of thing so
ultimately his efforts as everyone has to work at isms puchong but in the one family of the one spirituality so on the one where you can do it is if you focus on the level of origin and font and fulfillment and content through the objective that's the one spiritual if you focus on the level of our own personal into
limit assimilation of that in living that than one person will want to stress on good works with the poor and another person will want to stress of solitude etc
and then you get the real close and so we need both the unity and the plurality and in doing the history of christian spiritual we must be prepared to come to grips with great variety incredible right
but also insisted this isn't were not allow me to hundred million little churches or something like that but it's the one church the one fate the one salvation
up there's a note on the board and you from worrying about what is the monastic spirituality and very interesting that on the boat moored outside the church and he's very rigorous in linear and things some things are definitely monastic means you'd definitely not monastic and
the center medical is directly in function to the aeromedical and this is a waste of benedick consider me fine but that's the way he sees it now you can go to all sorts of other he's not by the way a much stiffer bid which is interesting but he writes it into about minister for which you go to other theologians a monastic life see quite different
and he says some things rather a top radically there but you can get some great towering saints and basil was sort of be the doctor of all of eastern monasticism in a certain sense yes in positions that are absolutely one hundred percent different from what bulgaria's writing there
so i think one of the things that going through the history of christian are challenges this is plurality is diversity is that a congress is in one place and anthony's another and basil this in another and we can't just force them into the same little box we've got to come to term
sort of serenely he a certain i love for pluralism with this variety
this one classroom

right
right now
certainly are commodities position
is that that's quite wrong and the whole benedictine heritage you said that credit he is coming out of a certain way and theorizing monasticism
where it's anti the whole concept of family the answer to that would be a i think can't be the case where the rule is competitive which is because the whole concept of the brothers and it is too strong so they you pays your money who takes your choice you can certainly come up with all sorts of
church fathers and also to monks who would be an agreement with them you can come up with all sorts of monks and fathers were actually not been agreement with now to some extent sooner or later you'd have to come to terms with the word of god this is the point now it seems to be difficult
because the whole concept of brothers and quietly a communion and community the daughter and solitude by the way but
to look upon the category of family has somehow
dangerous
it's difficult to do that and still be dialogue continued spirit nor we are present plays is the family guy
brothers who chooses to sex with regard to do so it's just so
i'm hopefully of what of course like this doesn't get this makes us wrestle with different positions quite quite different
that's a quite frankly will argue that the christian monk cannot be a solitaire because the christian monza christian christianity can the gospel and gospel means for tonnage service charity one supporting and sustaining loving the other so for basil who he is actually employ
trouble and basil does right to remove it is the rule the east now of his plays with through open
there are not family because you can do that but our own a cluster of solitary is here fields more attracted to bullying and to best one may eventually make that kind of decision but as i think it has to be a decision made in the serenity of knowing that it's it's an option among many other possible options and
it should be done in light of where the church is going and where the movie the benedictines and the canal the visitor coming with said turkey but it can't be that i think with saying this is it this is the pure of monastic spirituality in the others are not pure because that's that's hard to do in the light of this incredibly varied and rich and
the dynamic christians spirituality
so any other questions comments
we'll see someone is bright young
l k so spirituality or spirituality is both
and what a submission is different spiritual is what is the religion of basil and anthony
for instance
ah
our serious who stresses absolutely flee any other person you know and basil or benedict tour
for which the strongest type of monkeys this personal lives with others this sort of thing or on ignatius of loyola where his people should not say the office together and a benedictine through prayer is deeper se were two or three are gathered together liturgical prayer is
essentially community that's that with the council would say
because it's ecclesial how do we what's the relation of these is a different stresses and things are
one of the election to sovereignty in the trinitarian image a circle in session where the father is not the sun and the sun is not the spirit they are distinct were not unitarians were trinity tributaries and yet the father is fully present in the sun and the sun is fully present in the spirit the father isn't it
a rivalry with the sun but the father his father precisely because there is a son these are relational categories and it's the only way you can be a father is if you've got a son that there ain't no son or daughter around here on a father so the father is that who he is precisely because there is the other and in this loving bomb
on which is the loving spirit so sure you got up the ideal eventual the idea would be that you need solitary is and you need community monks and you need maybe
this type of monk and that type of monk and cetera et cetera or and you may even the christians weren't monks had i was staggering that part you might even need married christians and and even maybe jesuits and francis contents it and now maybe this is actually
now ideally use each which compliment the other unfulfilled together
now it doesn't work that way because we have too much of events in one but that's the ideal towards which were moving and the to ecclesial the place eventually what if we do get to that idea of a realm of the reunion of the churches would be the relation of the churches where the orthodox churches simply drop their own
in greek in the and simply adopt the roman rite and of
the whole bit and we're but the anglican communion at the pump is called the eastern churches are sister churches and the anglican communion our beloved system eventually the model there again would be unity in diversity
now sister churches this will see doesn't exclude that one might be the elder sister had touch guy the younger sisters that maybe but it's a different relationship than the one church to which the other simply must conform or the one spirituality to which all others must conform there's the police patrolling traced fair
and been nearly there you can go out and trace all the implications for asceticism and for the apostolic mission and for and it's very menu and you say everyone who does not conform to this is not a real bunk
you go really radical anti it's not really christian you and eventually this is where some early monks rat in their zeal they look upon the married state it's a kind of a tragic concession the god makes to sinners
okay that's one way you can work it up but another way is to see different spiritual and different ways of conceiving even a monastic carries him
and that's a little more challenging but i think also it's the only way to surimi do history of christian spirituality otherwise you're going to have to constantly turning out pages of history and pretending that they didn't really happen in this sort of
questions comments
right

very spiritual ali's
you're not said
once
partner
achieved
station
there's incredible variety and especially if you start looking for centuries and centuries of i think a careful look at history shows us that there's always been incredible variety and flux and dynamism the franciscans rinses their periods renewal of people going out to live just a solitary and and people who want to go in
the poor little huts in the inner city and the francis component is incredible variety so you have one little stereotype of the franciscan but of are there are little stereo type of the monk or the trappist or the canal visited and usually the thing is incredibly more varied
but it could be read how can this morning at
but the idea of christian community and that to happen
pyramids and then community months and like a serpent families and amongst who had out come back in business
this is i can these times i could very easily have more there won't be spiritualities because we're just getting so collectors
non solitary communities who are having people going on to solitude and so we're an airman lord and word try and were getting worse analytical not excluding others going to be more salt layer
i don't give up is just christian communities with great burns
right up eventually we're all christians so who would hopefully in substance and and it is the case that the trap is started having their little a hermitage out there and the benedictines many the benedictine that began be up there were father francis was staying having their and then a
we'll see when you look at the life as random it's not as cf first he was in the abbey and he said i want to be a solitary would up and build himself a cell and stayed there for their issues like but incredibly varied life just one one hermit who was happened to be are funded by the way but he spent years on the road he wanted to get an image
ocean work he spent years in reclusive spent years reforming monasteries also urban monsters has been long periods in our history where the great majority of our houses were sent a bidet and many many many urban houses sometimes we think we've been a hermit up to this point in now things to sort of
growing sentiment but it's always been incredible dialect in our own water talking about unity and fidelity grown but we've had
how is it right the middle of the city's right up some the oldest monasteries are urban monasteries in our order in in the world was sort of thing
i'm so there's always been this incredible dialectic indifferent the desert talk about the desert fathers incredible variety there from an evacuee use who's one of the great towering scholars and theologians of his time to where moses who ser a thief percents server doesn't have that much book learning
the movie is sort of him but incredible and the way both are living up your spirituality the difference would be man between for communism anthony etc so
we like stereotypes to simplify things usually things are very varied i think there is more inner communication between one sputtering netherlands script
the idea of sister church there seems i can't be and he had am
it seems like where where he had krishna
realized some thirty seven how will you how
god
won't see that also for the history of the church many many models i will see the early fathers when the earliest writings will be looking at is climate of rome's bishop of rome in writing to urge
writing from the church of rome to the church of corinth he's already presupposing the sister churches model but he is intervening they're not to say your excommunicated because you're doing what i don't but saying i'd like to exhort you to do this urge you to do that and there is authority they're one of the themes is houses to be utilized what is the mom
autel you can their have many many different models and theology is for instance of people authority
oh and there have been throughout the life of in the churches and princes many orthodox and many anglicans say they don't deny the primacy of piedra to really question is how is that to be exercised is the primacy to be conceived of as absolutely sort of the pope is up there on his own
the clouds and an idea comes to an exact precepts the church in chicago because it's doing differently from the idea and just came into his head he said that and during that now i wanted everyone wear blue stones and zap the just anything comes into his head is this what roman premises all about is independent arbitrary
an individualistic detached
kind of a monarchical authority absolute monarchy but this is one model was very very big nineteenth century because absolute monarchy was very big trying to fight off of the french revolution in the american revolution such as so there was a kind of a secular model of the absolute monarch and influence
some theologians wouldn't occur great if the one man who decides all questions is our absolute monarch was the pope
but if we'd get back to the early of documents will find that to that it around for for until you get into the middle ages
so certainly you're going to have to have authority and will be very varied a theology the authority talks about the magisterium that's a type of authority theologians are a type of authority the prophets or type of authority when the early documents will be really will be time of the profits that are wandering around the at their own
kind of through on consulting the laity in questions of dogma that's one of the great term tracks of cardinal newman
there were periods in history the church where the only hope for keeping the church out of heresy was the fateful most of the theologians most the bishops had gone over the organism and fateful the laity held on tenaciously to orthodox catholic doctrine and then the bishops swung back through the
so the lady have their own authority so it's different it's not that only one person in the church as authority no one else does every person here as authority just as in this community as a special authority as pride but everyone here has some authority
if someone here starts and i'm terribly worried about
i'm not urges selling cakes with superstars and he really makes an issue of this and keeps stressing it it brings out quotes from scripture and get people are gonna have to at least
listen to him the roots and benedict says gathered a community and you listen to the youngest first because of the holy spirit speaks to the so there's a charismatic and or him so that's a rushed certainly becoming great church will be authority but how to work it out
other christian hand you can almost take up ten minute break oath a one last thought and then we can go to actually hinder the apostolic fathers
christian spirituality and because i think we're catholics i think we do want to wrestle with a whole ah christians which are obviously we can't do it here but the ideal is to be very focused on the fourth century but also in the third of the sixteen on the nineteenth
god heretic means to choose to choose out one part and to want to overlook the other becomes a great meaning to pick out that which pleases you and you'll leave the rest now catholic means universal means the whole kit and caboodle so
there's not this little group that has the esoteric truth and all the other people or but it's the way the holy spirit has been working through all the ages in all countries this is elderly which interests as christians as catholic suspicion so of this is a challenge going to the whole history of christian spirituality one might say
but i'm particularly interested in for such a good one can be but i think is a catholic when also has to be concerned about the seventeenth century the nineteenth century the thirteenth century etc when might say i love of twelfth century mount apples or i love seventeenth century french spiritual
or i'm really into thirteen central english which are great everyone needs his focus but as catholics not cutting out all the rest because i'm you don't any longer had a catholic spirituality which in some way wants to come to terms with the whole why because of god wills the salvation of our humanity and this
zwilling is not just a paper passive a daydream but an operative willing so the holy spirit is opportune
in all of humanity
and certainly no christianity in a special rate and we are attentive to the spirit speaking to us through a francis of assisi through some dominic through a newman through an augusta and through or whatever
and this is the great serpents symphony this is a model the father's use ah it's the whole that glorifies in a particular way god just as in on it's the whole body of christ not just the have not just the i so if you go
to focus just on one element it's a little like saying i love the symphony and beethoven beethoven's ninth but just the piccolo part and i'm going to fall to the old son just
the trumpets are some it's that whole the trumpets and bassoon and piccolo drums and you put it all together that is the great sympathy simply a hood scoop thing so that's sort of the theology behind this course and now we can take a break and then come back and shove right
in the apostolic fathers who
oh we're going now we're going into the apostolic fathers this is a phrase it's not that ancient apostolic fathers it just just as a kind of detail comes back from the seventeenth century of their became there began a real interest in the fathers and different it
paris different periods of the patristic era and they started distinction of the apostolic fathers who were those who knew the apostles so they're the first generation after the apostles who saw jesus this is the idea and there were certain writings traditionally gathered in the apostolic for
others you know this collection for instance in early christian writings and he's got here clements letter ignatius polycarp diagn eat his barnabas ddk he said the classical with one or two other of hermes the other the apostolic writings
now we know it some of these in fact it's not cleared all that they didn't know apostles but some of them apparently clearly did and the ones will try to look at today certainly did clement of rome of new peter and paul iranians tells us and polycarp
of smear know new john the apostle answer that there's this beautiful tire this beautiful continuity here work in their writings in the kind of the fresh spring time of christianity
and at he beautiful to read these ratings sunday's it's almost ended up in the new testament you know it took centuries for the church to decide what are canonical works what are not canonical works partly the letter of clement of rome was written inside the first century and he's writing his letter to corinth
many if you didn't even read this letter you yes yes part know who hasn't read it
ha
well anyway it's not so is only one i've been oh well you got something it's climate
ah
for yeah it's not unlike a letter subs support of corinthians the corinthians where he's at the same problem was and had to be treated as the reserves so just as an example and comparisons to switch on the other hand there is a different tone to it in some of the whale that others who said this is a mess
history development but in any case it's this first link between the apostles would experienced firsthand way christ you're me jesus in the richest and christ and the more structured
table institutional church that will follow and so very key link this in evolution we have some missing wings but we don't we have this very key links that are explicit here between the one and the other and this for theology and doctrine
of a church it's it's very very important and protestants anglicans romans unorthodox are read these people in fight over whether rephrase means etc but it's very decisive also for that now these writers are writing not primarily i think you saw to enunciate dogmas were to spill out scully
stick theology but to encourage and spiritual life of the readers these are basically spiritual readings so often they're approached when you do your studies for the priest in a dogma class or theology theology the church of theology of christ or whatever be but there
primary intention of the writers themselves with spiritual so i think it's good to go back to them india's trimmed
oh
ruth
no
so
harness
right this is characteristic of the early fathers and some of the later father's origin is just when change scripture after text after another
all his teeth now that's that's typical of a monastic as we understand and view of spirituality that it simply meditating upon assimilating the living word of god which is inspired by the holy spirit so if i get that inspired word inside of me that spirit in the word is
going to transform and spiritual eyes me in the full sense so that israel's be shown
oh
now these letters are letters this is very very important these are not tracks of the writing they're not a a a section of a systematic theology on the church or they're not a history that to their letters written to specific churches for specific problems there what are called okay
occasional writings not that you do it occasionally in the sense that there's a specific location a concrete occasion that provokes and inspires these as the same with the letters of paul as distinguished from the gospel for instance of matthew mark luke and jump entirely different literary type and if you
read these carefully as you'll find in your scripture studies you want to see what is the type of writing and then see what is implied in that
now a lender has a certain virtues and certain limits had you gotta know them all when you're going to if you're going to fully evaluate these writings on for instance it's an occasional provokes them suppose you've got a mother and a brother and the mother is here in the brothers
south east and other day comes and the brother doesn't send anything and the mother's very angry and you're angry so you pull out a sheet of paper write an angry letter to your brother why didn't you say anything for your mother don't you love or to is really frank
and kind of angry and then he gets on the phone he explains that he did send something when he sent some into someone was coming that someone last few address so it wasn't his fault of a day you get down you write another letter apologizing and bringing up other things etc
so if labour scholars find just that first letter pull up anger and wrath et cetera you see they might misinterpret your whole relationship to that brother maybe is very deep relationship maybe you've always been to get precisely this familiarity permit us to write down angry phrases etc be quite
you know
upfront about she has at this age but if you judge the whole relationship she's from that one metre you can go wrong if you don't do a very subtle reading remembering that it's one occasion that did provoke that letter and then if you get another letter that balances out then you get a slightly fuller picture if you get ten of the correspondence letters you going to
much fuller picture
that person written when he was tend to his brother in the news twenty two is better news then you get a whole slew of the relationship but if you again if you have just that one angry letter you can be very careful
because a letter presupposes a great deal and often more is not express but it's very important than is expressed for instance all the deep fraternal love and
all the experiences shared in a etc etc all those are presupposed in that angry later but they're not explicit so sometimes you really have to read behind behind and between the lines so that's the problem with a letter format
ah and is to be kept in mind so princess we have just one letter of clement
two corinthians we have another but it's not authentic coach
and that that makes things difficult
now some people have limited there's some things that aren't in the letter the letter seems awfully moralistic awfully awfully focused on that one little problem of this group it's giving a bishop a bad time but put about all sorts of other things what about mary in the eucharist and the happy joys of christian life in all sorts of other things
that's not what a letter is all about a letter isn't written to kind of serenely some of the whole of christian there's nothing in there are bucks contemplation techniques or asceticism that is focus their and that problem in the current church of divisions well now that's what other all about so again ah
it's very important to try to focus on what is the literary genre as it called of what you'd gotten front of you and then remember the limits the virtues and the good aspects when good inspector butters extremely personal the person comes to st paul that person comes through
with all his ups and downs and emotions and angers in a way that for instance the writer of the letter to the hebrews rinsed which isn't really a letter but it's more a theological tracked or the a writer of the gospel of mark for instance that's more mysterious who was mark was he that
lad ran away naked when they go maybe it was that at all or etc but
what did mark feel and think etc
we don't get a lot more about paul we know a lot more about
ignatius can we do about the author mark as far as that the personal in many ways so that's one disadvantage of a letter is it's very it can be very limited to that one issue
so it's partial and it presupposes a great deal
ah what strong about it is it's a very direct immediate kind of costs out of it into a personal thing going on so these letters presuppose a lot they presuppose a whole a christian faith they presuppose christian communities existing that eucharistic life of prayer of show
charity all the thing shared on this whole bit so that is
ah
what is the value of clement to value later of pauline carpet center again this link up this mysterious continuity which isn't just a kind of an outer juridical thing
like a kind of passing a baton
peter passes the baton to clement who passes the baton to uranium say but no it's not that it's is
peter knew jesus and he knew the risen christ and this is not a speculative know into pieces you know this true christian gnosis true christian experience of christ and it's this that he shares you see with clement that's the beautiful continuity
and it's this is the kind of ecclesial expression of that great christ promise i'm with you always have not simply with you locked up there in the tabernacle your postman and with you inside your experience and this is express also true christian history through this passing on a
lived experience this is what the the about what the starts is all about passing on a whole lived experience of christ and this is not just one generation but if you it goes right down the history of the church so that's what this a beautiful continuity is all about
the epic had proud tradition
that's right tradition isn't just something some arab a list of doctrines that has nothing to do a scripture and nothing to it is the experience of christ we find in scripture that it's personalized it's handed down from
clement to in a us and for new names to accustomed cetera
a gustin said i wouldn't even know that there had been a jesus had it not been for the church
the church is living way of this shared experience of christ and that get now here we share with each other experience but also right through time this is our capital a city universal geographically sort of speed and universal in time and we can be universal time because there is this continuity
as there's a kind of buff major be scholastic theology that isn't prepared so there's a leader neil lutheran theology that isn't the best that just talks about a kind of a leap there was the true testament times in scripture times when the gospel was lived then things just went right down and
oops as they sit for fifteen centuries in luther comes and renews the whole thing so if you're going live in the spirit which had to do is jump over about fourteen centuries right back to the new testament and luther help you do that now that's that's not where luther is anything but that's a kind of a bad a protestant theology where we can't accept
that we can't do these leaps over centuries because i am with you always in there's always have lived experience which we want to share to have a good that fullness of symphony
ah

urinate tells us that there was erroneous have you read their names he lists the lists of the bishops of rome he's doing this against the gnostics because the gnostics are saying if you want real authority this through a
you know chancery hundred now you know that the real truth is in our little group and will share it secretly and it's a hidden truth and during this is not all not at all the real truth is in the visible church that you can see through the years in the continuity of bishops
and this is all just take one church for you as an example the church of rome the oldest in the most prestigious and it lists as lists submissions and climate is the third after where the fourth if you like peter linus and a cletus clement
so here we got climate and erroneous as a whole section is up against the heresies where he says this clement new peter and all and was instructed by them this is very beautiful
soaking this climate didn't just get his experience of christ not even just need to lie aesthetically but you've gotta directly from as it were a putrid pop
ha
now he wrote this to the church in corinth i remember the church in rome and the church in point at all right always had quite a closer operate from paul was writing the letter to the corinthians angry about things that happened there and then he goes on to wrong but there's there's always this kind of work
close now this is a very special document obviously for roman catholics who want to stress the primacy of the pole
here we've got when the earliest maybe the earliest of the apostolic writings of by the way climate seems to be around ninety to ninety one to one hundred in his