Life of the Five Brothers

00:00
00:00
Audio loading...

Welcome! You can log in or create an account to save favorites, edit keywords, transcripts, and more.

Serial: 
NC-00654

Suggested Keywords:

Description: 

Seminar on Life of the Five Brothers

Photos: 
Notes: 

#set-life-of-five-brothers, Thomas Matus says he is 47 years old. Born in 1940, this dates the tape in year 1987. He says it is a few days before the Feast of Bruno Boniface of Querfort (October 15th). Thomas Matus' book, "The Mystery of Romuald and the Five Brothers" was published in 1994.

Auto-Generated Transcript

doesn't bless us help us to move out of the the limits of their own time and space and enter into that
an area of communion
in which we can really cut know
our predecessors in the faith and in the master journey where we can feel close to them and
but the real brotherhood and sisterhood with them
me yes especially the
recession a romeo been a preferred the thy holy martyrs
over things
to help us to understand
to see it as much as possible as they saw their vacation to river on vacations with great generosity and gay
we asked this in jesus' name
so thank you for coming
methods are the coffee later it i may only make ten copies of the capitalism work very well that it may be less than to do we need to go on mrs only half of the of what will be talking about the
what i like to do is just to present the translation that i have which is the next to the last draft
of the life of the five brothers by st bernard van of corporate whose feast we celebrate a few days and this was written and ten o six about
and it was so

it was really not known but what i want to do is really present some clues on how to how to get in touch with this tax because we're talking about something that's nine hundred and eighty years old and
you can assist all you want on on the fact that we're all human beings and human nature has never changed that much and so pretty said that my own feeling is that there's a a great distance between ourselves in the eleventh century and we simply see the world differently we
see even a common things everyday things because we relate to them differently we have shoes on her feet we we live in a concrete box as heated rooms and things like this all of these details all the things that go to make up our own
a sense of relatedness to time and space and other people are place distance between us and the people that time i think our grandparents or great-grandparents would add a lot greater facility and relating to these people have been out on century than than we do or
even perhaps the generation span it's a here in the room
i sometimes feel you know that there's a gap between myself my forty seven years in feminists in his twenties or her twenties or something like that so ah the times change so rapidly so we shouldn't have any illusions and
this occurs creates great problems for translating and so i've got my best to make something that's english
it's not cannot be
you can't get really the name the flavor of the original unless you go to be written that's obvious it's to the bible to have everything and i don't claim that i've been able to create the definitive translation of this thing but i'm working on i'm trying to make it just as good english as possible reasonably faithful to the original
read some of the gap that i feel between ourselves in that time and yet the same time we do have a co-pay kind of a con naturally of experience that's the important thing where this com actuality comes about as our life and community or experience of the monastic life according to the rule of st benedict
that was what bonded these ah
men together and then we can say women also because remember that st ronald founded women's communities and bonded them together and so it is with us we're related to them through this heritage now
a couple of years back when was it i gave a series of talks on the vocation of st ronnie old and trying to fit him into his times and to give a picture both of the it might say a secular scene and the monastic seen the religious seen that he grew up in the that he was formed in
these are all recorded so when to doesn't have that you know can go and look at them they're there i mean listen to them they're in the library but ah
just to pick up a couple things first of all the monastic year of centreville was the clooney act reform it was the cognac monk not of clooney nor of a monastery that was considered really dependent on plenty he was a monk of santa polina in class say in ravenna which was the most venerable
a monastic community there had been a greek monastery and them when the lombards came in and the city was latinized i became a western community and kind of evolved into western music and then st to as came along and increase them to adopt the role st benedict is
they're one rule and to adopt the liturgical customs of
plenty
visit the two of the big things that are important to keep in mind and the to nyack but we call it to enact reform is also the whole area of spirituality and rondo was very imbued with the spirituality plenty to absorbing it not only and is well not so much in his own monastery which had adopted the external you might say and
not even very well the externals but the inner life was still very weak these were very lukewarm mugs and so far wrong old entering into that
a phase of of turmoil and crisis in his own personal life his anguish over his father's killing a relative and his desire to do penance for this and and his discovery of the monastic life never had a any idea of becoming a monk
but he was not satisfied with the monastery and so he laughed and went to venice of the hermit there and then he met a habit getty of a monastery in the pyrenees which was one of the great center's not have plenty but it was likely was like the the catalonian equivalent
and of pruning catalonia is it would at that time extended on both sides of the pyrenees and a dependent from the that she'll barcelona so the area around barcelona is called catalonia and they have their own language and literature ah
considerable culture there ah so khushi was a great center
of monastic life a very fervent monastery and the abbot was in contact with a great minds of the time with share powerful york who was considered the greatest mine of the tenth century the early eleventh century tenth century and
he was in contact with the the emperor's there was otto the first second and third during the lifetime is grandeur
and then during that period covered by this text the lives of the five brothers auto the third dies and there's a revolution their wars in europe the christians fighting christians and then henry the second who was canonized
it becomes the emperor and then a saint peter damian later spoke about contact between ronald and hinder the second run them wanted to have little to do with entering the second as possible but gaudy was very close to these autos ian's on the first second third brahmi oil got very involved with
out of the third young emperor with with what kind of grandiose dreams about re-establishing the roman empire and
partly through that contact and partly through the disciples who were in the courts of otto and then entered the monastery not i wanted to become a monk himself and through that contact round opened up to the missionary idea which was something that was present in manassas
condition from the time of st barnabas the eighth century st barnabas and then from england who vandalized what is now germany and parts of holland and ah this was a great inspiration also in general for monks even of the clooney act before
warm
but rondo didn't have this in view he was interested in encouraging the hermit life but this was part of the clooney experts spirituality as well they had permits and pasha they had her hermits not very many couple of had agree they had a whole colony apartments near monte cassino at this time we read about one of the companions of see
ronald being a hermit after they leave catalonia they come back and this other hermit john got an ego it he becomes joins the hermit colony with an ex abbot of monte cassino on the slopes of casino so this is the context of ronald and of the period ca
covered by this little book the life of the five brothers which is ah
was written around ten o six and covers the period just immediately preceding and following the year one thousand so we're right centered on the millennium and just as people today are beginning to get the creeps about the three zero is coming along with the leading and neurosis of the three zeroes and
and not that i'm going to make a bit of difference we know that i mean it's just it's just a cipher on the calendar but people are are getting antsy about it and the crystals people who liked to manipulate other people's religious fear as their writing books and how lindsay and all of his troops are are are on the attack
and and of pushing their their own agendas through this militarism and through this idea of you know that would work and company and and and and all the good people are going to get caught up and the others are just gonna get mad
so that's the mentality and so there was some of this and that chris the wonderful thing about and about getting and about these others was that their spirit was reliving salvation history now and ah
the world's not coming to an annual come to an end when god wants it but in the meantime we live the mystery of christ in our reality which will be positive and negative there's a war going on we face that we live in the spirit of christ
there are these new missions opening up in eastern europe the ah
ecclesiastical hierarchies a rome and constantinople are kind of running neck and neck is a kind of a competition going on to put out of many missionaries in that area and they were struggle especially older over bohemia bohemia is the big thing that that that who is gonna have prague you know finally
while rome got prague long got proud and ah as whereas constantinople got ah
nice ruth see that was the the original russia has ascended around kf and st volodymyr or lad amir was
the prince of kiev and he was converted and baptized and the your nine eighty eights so next year as the thousand year millennium of christianity in ukraine and russia is very important that that but by another pope is just died go there and and of kearsley and
gorbachev and the others are not by any means dying to see him come to but they'll probably have to say yes i'm betting that i'm betting that they have seen it but an equal police you know something that that that's because that's too important even for the history there so where do raw mules monks come in auto once
to send missionaries up into poland poland is securely in the roman camp
there were so there was some missionary work of the byzantines from constantinople in that area but poland accepted latin christianity and nine sixty six something like that and then
know that so that was a foothold in eastern europe
lithuanians held out but then but then the of crispr care for it you know but i'm a you see the the important thing about about
bahrami enters into this whole missionary thrust and then you get the idea i they didn't get the connection of the idea this is the opposite of the linear militarism you know the idea that god is going to step in and and pick up the good people and and and blast the the the corrupting the the the that the those who are
destined to perdition truly doesn't the condition that
they believe that the future with it we have to participate in it and we have to
continue salvation history for all the peoples that are so anyway so this is a great experience of of hope and ah
confidence that god's work in christ is going on in the midst of the most ambiguous miserable human circumstances anyway
yeah so
iranian connects with this
emperor otto the three one does this happen it happens in nine ninety eight and he's been back from catalonia
for about ten years he's been living as a hermit on different properties of his monastery he has tried a couple of foundations which didn't pan out terribly well
but he has a reputation as being a very solid spiritual man someone who is wise counsel someone who lives a very austere life and spirit of the desert elders that is a by the way the way my solution to the desert fathers thing not saying fathers and mothers and the desert fathers mothers like a desert elders
i don't know that and know but i going to say desert elders of me i play it translate them now so anyway the desert elders and so he was
well known ah
the emperor came on
and ah
there was an opening the holy see and there was an opening in ravenna book the the the monastery needed a new habit they needed a new archbishop they need a new pope in rome and the roman families with been electing their own no alternative alternating and owned and worrying over who's going to be
next pope and and one pope was about i think seventeen when he was elected and you know things like this i mean really nasty situation rome was it that the media of its history there was no it was no ministry appeared with just all of the you know it was peter that denying his lord you know history a historically once again so
in this mess you know the the young emperor steps in and and name's one of his own names of german who was himself only twenty three but that was already left it was him as adults at least grown man so ah
so what he says no gregory this i forget the number
he was no no i think he was just a priest
and i'm
but he's probably put these poisons so
when for is poison the forest poison otto wants to settle the the situation or event but so what he does he names their of over yok agenda of over yok was the greatest as i said the greatest my the tenth century and he was a monk and he had i had some troubles with the
ah with rome but he had
hmm had some against the samba credits with the the emperor and so the emperor so and he was a brilliant man he was a good man man of virtue and so forth so
the emperor put a man as archbishop of ravenna which was the members to see in western christendom there was number one was around the number two was ruin because it had this reputation even though the city itself as was kind of really you know kind of broken down but the the prestige of this being it was the the
xrp of the eastern empire was a center of contact still with eastern empire so was politically very important so as number two and in whelan in italy shall we say
ah and then he put in a chair bear i think was probably air bearings my hypothesis who suggested well you know
ah who you know that there's this holy hermit monk he is a benedict and of classy who i knew of him from getty in cut when he was in catalonia and so he's the man to be the and them so a of minutes is at it and that worked for about one year and all that pete davidson get as
the families that lay influence was a big problem in those period so he had these families in and one of them chris with romulus on family so they thought all we got one of ours in here so this is going to need that's kind of manipulating him and then there was also speculation the the german poll by the way the first german pope and in history
he was more the young one nominated by otto was poisoned or whatever and so he was ah the picture probably airfare bear was the obvious candidate but then so they were going back and forth between rome and between the the archbishop's palace in the the abbey and so they were trying to get
able to consent to being archbishop is my hypothesis but it's most likely that they were going to into a musical chairs move run without archbishop and he wouldn't have anything to do with it so it goes and throws down the
ah the base or insignia in front of the the the emperor and runs off to monte cassino to see his good friend john got an ego again and who spend some time with him
ah
no ah enable them they meet up again
in the year one thousand
is there at monte cassino for few months and he takes zeal and he meets a young monk from benevento who had come and was living with with john got an ego and meets up with with this young man benedict of benevento benedetto momentum and ah
this is he was a very fervent very hot blooded young man who insists that are gung ho on being a hermit he joined a monastery to do penance for the fact that his parents had paid for his ordination and priesthood he was in his teens when he was her name and his parents had paid the bishop and when he found out
that he decided he had the dependency entered the monastery monastery wasn't enough wanted to be a hermit the abbot tried to say will stay in the monastery will give you a private cell and that's one thing i had to spend some time outside and he came back to the monastery in anyone to wanted to see that was his history so there's very fervent young monk meets ronald and they become inseparable
and so run and get sick and benedict nurses him back to health and then they go to rome and they need auto again and there with auto there's so many of his court there's his chaplin his taplin is a priest in his twenties by the name of bruno
bruno of corporate perhaps he had also a christian name book do there was no saint bruno that time so the he was the first one so he'd probably have the christening been in use and he preferred to has been in use it as might be an invented name that that he uses just to cover you know not to talk about himself in the first person and now
when he talks about his meeting ronald but it's obvious that the to the references to him
he and another and and one of the the the generals or colonels or whatever of autos army decide to become monks and otto is living here on the aventine hill that's recent ensemble is now very close to our monastery san gregorio in gregory's from the ceiling and hill
which had just become clooney out by the way and but they're they're near a monastery called santa lexus and the church is still there with a brutal decoration they still have the icon the byzantine icon of the blessed version which was venerated by
rami old and below cliff written and this other one whose name was thomas his christian name is thomas ah the soldier and autos army and they joined this monastery the monastery was had lap monks great mugs
ms interesting news more than one that one of these kinds of monastery throughout in enroll and they so they would alternate the office of the two different rights and so they the whereas the the latin monks were under the rule of st benedict
and so out they were making their inhibitions and they need rod mill and ronald says come with me and went to establish a hermitage obviously a temporary hermitage outside of rome and a theory is that the established it at the soccer speaker at the the
the the cave where st benedict was or at least near subiaco that's a good hypothesis one one out just had this possibility and the emperor comes out to see him and so forth and all of this takes place there's all sorts of political things in the city the people don't want the emperor there and that sort of thing all of this is a lot of through
avila and so eventually they all go back to ravenna the emperor has to leave rome romulus takes his disciples his group and goes a little north of ravenna this and property the monastery and start some new hermitage and and the emperor wants to build a monastery wants to build my church
and start something there it doesn't work out but he's infected my mule gets the idea of the missions and he accepts this he he he is not interested in going himself later you will be and try to go to the missions ah few years later but he sends ah
to his disciples this benedict from benevento and another brother john
andrew care for the also permits a prefer to prepare for a mission and bruno corporate will later go to hungary and then he'll go to it'll end up in lithuania but but he will become friends with with
vladimir with st vladimir and this is that this is something very important that the games that were being played between rome and constantinople romulus people had nothing to do with this they were not in competition with anyone anyone else's missions they were cooperating as much as they could whenever they wouldn't contact with the areas
the evangelize from byzantium from constantinople so bruno carefree maiden friends with st vladimir vladimir helped him with his mission a bruin in fact went and preached to the enemies of st vladimir's really favorite you know his own his own kingdom in that regard so that's where the me
new thing iranian comes in
and that's where this story comes in
and
so as i said i tried my best to thrill us into english shortening the sentences and so one has always torn between the idea of faithfulness to the text or and the attempt to render some of the rhetorical flavor of the text and yet to make something intelligible
will not only intelligible but not too heavy to read know so in any case it's a compromise and then there's always the element of treason
for the the italian proverb product told a crowd toward the translator is a traitor is always as a kind of betrayal of the text that and when you put it into another language if you lose a lot
this there are certain things that are just impenetrable about this this this this kind of heavy rhetoric about sin and guilt and yet i get this feeling that there's almost tongue in cheek it isn't that is insincere he says good jesus i know what i am my sins of slain me and left me to rot like a dead dog
and a dunkeld
i wallow in evil like a solid in the mud do not condemn me dear jesus if i dare to write about somebody else's virtues and you my reader by judge forgive me for telling this story with no style and without practicing what i preach i simply must do it for i am driven by love and esteem now to be of love is
passion policy it's all part of this this is a tremendously emotional people and they let their emotions of hang right out there very ah they externalize at all they're very affectionate they can get very angry didn't get very upset they get very depressed he's talks about the thing
the admission isn't going right and there's benedict and john and that that polish brothers and waiting for a letter from wrong to the to permit them to preach you know they've started the monastery they want to go out and preach the pagans they have to have boomed her mom this isn't coming bruno curfew doesn't come along never arrives and so they're an anguish and depressed and comply
painting and it goes on about their depression and everything
and ah
so some of this sometimes as is sound a little funny sometimes it sounds just heavy but it's part of their their their way of living another important thing about this is is the importance of friendship and these people really experienced deep human friendship deep bonds and
and ah all this it makes us a little uncomfortable because in our own society the sexual overtones of all the be honest about sexual overtones of friendship are always present as a kind of a threat
and we just feel uncomfortable about people whether whether it's
two people the same sex or opposite sex it's something that that
and this is a real challenge to christians if we believe in both friendship and chastity and they did and this is a curse the you know but one thing that that that on can be very helpful for us even though we can't we can experience
a friendship the way they experienced it i mean it's as to is too gushy for us but on the other hand it's it's a lesson
the most i think the most beautiful aspect of this little book is the way it presents these the wonderful friendships and for wonderful sense of loyalty to each other and also the consequence of this or when there's a failure and now and ah brillo took the name barnabas up a span of us was
religious name very rare in those days ronald was born on nominal that guys around them so everyone kept the baptismal name the idea of the religious name came in practically didn't come into the sixteenth century it started really one of the first come out the leads to take a a a a religious name was
was a man by didn't it was a wonderful named thomas thomas just jani he took the name paul destiny on and why he gave up an encounter i think i'm gonna stay that with a that was mostly let and anyway
so but a up since there was no saint bruno that he took up a the same
who was especially venerated there at the monastery where he had made his vision and also because he felt this attract into remission so in order of st barnabas who have analyzed the english st monica smooth angeles germany and all
ah so this is wonderful ah wonderful sense of friendship and then the sense of failure know when brutal bonobos fails to bring the letter to these brothers and pilot
and they they don't judge him and condemn him but they're they're they're they're tormented they're they're afraid what has happened to something has happened to him or or why does he what does he do this doesn't he know that and it will be tempted to think he's a liar and i want this is temptation to and but they don't they don't give it
that and
let's see now what else can i suggest method
the mind that the brothers there were in poland waiting for bruno manifesting to bring this letter from the pope and pope and was your bare that time it took the name sylvester the second and had mentioned that ah they they weren't they wait you never came you see and they never got in anyway
finally they sent away one of the push button better here
they were martyred and ten o three on thursday the eleventh of november ten of three
fully thirty five only learn these are the guys the only thing is they didn't let them see this
for one thing their relics were dispersed i think him after a couple hundred years with the words that were going on of the that those areas
between christians are with the pagans and so forth there was ah the monastery was burned and so their their bonds were lost their relics that we don't know where they we know where they were buried more last you know it was near ah
where there that the the monochrome herman something hermitage of the fine brother
but
ah
the the that so many legends grew up around them that sometimes they thought of as five polls and there was these tools attack to italians and the to blood brothers so there was john and benedict of the two italians ah isaac matthew the to blood brothers who were monks had made a vow was probably already
and then a cook christian christian or crystal
ah where the five five is a to
while the first martin said that the
yeah
right right and that's the their the first martins upon us
and the other three were polish of course yeah
and why just as well bruno corporate i guess is the first martyr and lithuanian what is to date of linear isn't it wasn't what was there any martyrs among the the the byzantine
yeah i'm thinking
yeah
ah
let's see i don't quite know what else to say this point there is some other things they wanted in the oh yes one of the thing that's very important we can get into this
and that is the ah the background of the rules st benedict here
the references to the to the rule throughout this
i'm using the ruler and is the rooms have been big is referred to with with enormous veneration this is the holy rule and he says when benedict joins the monastery
ah
and st christie does penance for the sin of seventy his parents you know committed the sin of seventy by paying to have him ordained when he finds us out he does pendants for they've seen by joining a community of canons regular
under the rule of st augustine but soon he was moved by the spirit to give up everything for god and it became a monk obviously it wasn't didn't give up everything that he became a cannon regular and he became a monk in reality it was a monk already he had taken chastity as his bride and kept his virginity with great zeal knowing that it's reward is great
him he entered the monastery of the holy savior which overlooks the sea i don't know where this monastery was but a dedicated the transfiguration by the way to vary of course that was romulus his favorite devotion there he found his mother the monastic rule he submitted to her commands even when they seemed are some painful
and so he discovered what great sweetness flows from her breasts which been god's servants this is an illusion
to ah the prologue we will sing benedict
where
therefore we intend to establish a school for the lord's service this phrase of course concludes that the part that comes from the rule of the master then the the room the benedict of the rule whoever he was the benedict of the rule assets and drawing up its regulate
oceans we hope to sit down nothing harsh nothing burdensome obviously the experience some time with something a harsh burdensome although it's not the intent of the rule the good of all concern however may prompt us to a little strictness in order to amend faults and to safeguard love not be daunted immediately by fear and run away from the road that leads to salvation
there's bound to be narrow at the outset but as we progress in this way of life and in faith which will run on the path of god's commandments our hearts overflowing with the inexpressible the light of love inexpressible sweetness of luck so he discovers the sweetened there's this wonderful
maternal metaphor and how the the mother's breasts which being god's servants then he says he was an exemplary monk and in a few years very short time he was ready to live as a hermit this is where of course blue care for reflecting also the idea of st ronald and st
peter damian departs from the rules and benedict who insists
ah in the chapter in the kinds of monks the first kinds amongst the the first as a set of eight you know the second of the anchorage or hermits who have come through the test of living in a monastery for a long time
and it passed beyond the first program monastic life thanks to the help and guidance of many they are now trained to fight against the devil they have built up their strength and go from the battle line and the ranks of their brothers to the single combat of the desert self reliant now without the support of another they're ready with god's help to grapple single handed with the vices of body and mind
so this is this the wisdom of rules in benedict and it also became in the experience of kemal delay after generation of the foundation of canonically became experience of canal the late and of the principle of a longer formation and the community was established as
as the only thing that would really work however is always exceptions and certainly these were exceptional man we're talking about these are exceptional times and ronald was very much a conscious i mean he could discern these exceptions and he may have kind of exaggerated the favor of the or medical life and or
resigning me that was ready for he push him into it and then of course sometimes he was disappointed fact a lot of times he was disappointed because they did they needed to commute they needed information before they can go into this since bruno work for him and so he's always confident that this works but it's interesting that what happens you
this is benedict and of chris bruno's and favorite of the idea that that you know if the it's the communities lukewarm will get out of it and go and be a hammer
the abbott would wouldn't let him and he's talking about the added to the monastery there with the benedict wouldn't let him have a private cell in the abbey but benedict could not endure the mediocrity and lukewarm observance of his brothers the holy spirit's fire raged in his heart and drove him out into the wilderness so he left the event to and went to amounts or actor
benedict spent about three years on the mountain the hard he led their made him vulnerable to every sort of temptation as he himself admitted later so there here's a little and i can see i can just a visual as all twinkle in and bruno's i you know this young hermit monk you know
he felt he was ready for it he wasn't quite ready for now and although he was ready to do all the pennants and ready for the solitude yet alone by himself he under what every possible temptation meanwhile the abbot and i don't have to say although he praised benedict's austerity kept trying to woo him back to the monastery
three when benedict returned the abbot build him a cell near the abbey where he could enjoy that certain sweetness again the sweetness of the fulfillment of monastic life in this world that certain sweet and sweetness which god does not begrudge his lovers
and where the hermit life would be easier for him and edifying for others so even to make it a little easier it should be there should be there's the sense of fulfillment isn't even not you know they they the that the one thing if you know i'm sure other yeah have brought to out you know one of the things about the that way
the master is that the idea that it's all a hard work pants and i'll pick up to be and grit your teeth you know bushnell here and then you'll have haven't you know
heinz computer then you'll have heaven you know but as long as you're not here on whereas benedict you know the the that the little phrases in the the little paragraphs little additions in the part that comes from the role of the master and the other parts to and tend to indicate this this confidence that know we are many experienced the sweetness and
is that business there's a foretaste of paradise and and the monastic life is not all bitterness you know it's supposed to me even enjoyable and so you get this feeling also this is one of the in what what makes this a very benedict and text it's about premises about missionaries if you're a typical you might say him and an addictive though
or a typical and commodities history
there wasn't any any development the missionary thing just disappeared after st drama his disappearance which are getting kind of went into and i'm kind of a slumber it was there it is there in brissett
superior damien talked about it oh i didn't say one thing this text was unknown in our community in our congregation until the end of the last century it was lost it was known only in poland and germany and was caught a few copies available the only copy from which they make it can be
google texts that dates from the twelfth century so there's even the certain interruption but i think it's certain that this is an authentic work of brewing equipment and above the in the time that is talking about
but even so a lot of this the feel of this came through and continued on down to the centuries
so as i see lots of references to the rule of benedict ah although in parentheses with this sense that that for ronald and for those who were under his his guidance there can be an exception in the general rule that among needs along formation
before he's ready to be hermit
hurt me iowa have ten copies of these and i want to yeah oh god
yes
the beginning
as a amy
garden benches
do you get the feeling that way human relationships they answered
the
and the for is a team
the way people express themselves news time he said it would be for yeah i know the de vionnet with the words express
healthy relationship themselves as i know a lot of people when they express themselves in writing and speech know it may be a lot more work
life may be a lot more smoothly as implied than it is factual reality of rights as only yeah and is when i'm curious when your question because i'd be interested in knowing what kind of relations is a actually video
but he was an infection will be
just need to know
i'm just curious about with you via
ah
i had the impression that of course there's always a certain amount of of a rhetorical
exaggeration here i mean that it's heavy with rhetoric and on and i've tried to scrape off a little bit of that in a little bit of this this whipped cream on top and on but that's the way it is it's a way they express themselves and i get the same time my impression is that at least among the aristocracy and that's what
we're talking about because my her not around here was an aristocrat all these people were noble people and that sort of thing later the destiny of commodity was to become ah
congregation and so are very soon and know i do it but it attracted the local people and became
i also a place of upward mobility where the the peasants you know would not have no chance for an education join and getting a good education where even the townspeople the commodity was at the forefront of founding urban monasteries when when the tub when when urban life began to to take off again in the
late eleventh especially the twelfth century the first some the first foundations from commodity were while the first foundation cucamonga was at the gates of florence
the first florentine monastery that we had and that i'm chris was the the other one the more famous ones he'd married the angels right a few blocks away from that that from the coupon lot from from there the duomo the cathedral so
but at that time this was the the environment and so i can say that my impression is that among the aristocracy there was a great deal of warmth and affection and and they express themselves freely in in this and on
they were they remained mainly you know that what we get here as male bonding so
male bonding in other words these were a friendship among man ah there were later developed in commodities history some beautiful male female friendships within the monastery you there in the joint monasteries are like that seemingly of the angels it was the man's across the street in our so there was a lay brother and ah they are a man you who
had this correspondence in the they never fight other than the cloistered strict cloister they had this wonderful
the affection and friendship but
my impression is yeah that there was a lot of expressiveness and i think was mainly wholesome and healthy i mean people human nature's but what it is today like when it was like that that you find and peter damian
and we're talking about the the middle how the eleventh century begins to ah the alarm goes off in his in his conscience and begins to be very wary at some of these things and you start then to have the warnings about the particular friendship and you have the incident of the homosexual at
tsuchiya in the life of romulus this is this guy that the you know who commits sexual sam wrangled accuses him and he in turn a kid is ronald of playing around together so and that's important in the and more in the context of but it's historical not it's not important it's important for peter damian
so he was beginning to see problems there i don't think they were great problems at the time ronald they think they were just abusive and as things happen and as as europe we gotta be torn up and there was as population explosion a lot of people just couldn't get married because there was not so a lot of people got into monastery the i know
business being there and no location
ah one other thing about these friendships that you see a ceremonial ah it was an affectionate man was very much mentions this was very ah
his longing to see your after he resigns as out he runs de monte cassino is longing to see john gonna need up because they had shared the sale together there at crusher by the way also the the the romulan for them i think most of the time up to when he began to really gotten
over sixty most of these years as a hermit he was living with someone in the cell except when he was only when he had any community he had some with him myself when it was by himself period of obviously he was by himself but very often they would come along a monk and i share the cell to get this idea of to to a cell was very common and was part of
the romeo all of the inexperience and had for the milan it was it was structured that way by the time
oh and this may have to do with the incident and syria by the time rod will comes along the outcome elderly and this is he's close to his death and he makes a big point in the charter it's mentioned specifically one hundred per cell it may be because of the danger of a nuisance or may simply be in other
this seems to work out better in the great stability emphasis on friendship
may also have a a reason for its existence or or the
what we regard is extreme formality of life or in the middle ages and ah
but for us you know or it it would be a be just a straight jacket people have their place and you did things you know and a certain way and everything was kind of are cut and dried and people also didn't have a lot of freedom and vocation like the that the the occasional citronella as an adult location at the age of twenty
and he is way beyond the usual years of people who painted monasteries in his time and later after him in the eleventh century became more common for good men and women to enter monastery the for him it was it was a novelty so this this experience of his freedom he made a vocational choice which is against everything that is family intended for him everything goes
probably gave the one was already is a bride was chosen and everything was set up for him then follow his father's military career whatever so he was breaking away from that i think friendship who was away with people could break the you know break through some of these of these structures and experience the freedom of of
they're also because if the sexes were a separate as i think probably they were at that time and i was only way that you'd have affection so i how to thing i think
never
a certain river
don't know
moving but that's not a very high earning level ordered wouldn't have like
with friendly i'm earn point which address
to get her
come on you look at the back on
excellent observation is this comparison with the with the context of of early zam and ronald is quite out there is something in the character
operandi old which is rather anarchic and because of his taste of freedom in choosing his vocation against his family's expectation against even the month amongst themselves in want him
he's ever going against it the great in every respect he got to the habit of this sort of thing
so
i'm saying about you know after after he met the emperor again in rome and they ever could not stand wrong for political reasons ronnie cannot stay at the hermitage new rome because it just wasn't you know there's a lot of people coming there there's too much disturbance so they all go back to alabama and randall goes to play
called pet ale which now the little village called santa bathtub and albert was really out of the to albert which was the he had just been murdered in poland and was a otto's new st the new martyr for his you know his project of of the of the the the expansion of the
church and eastern europe so that the the hermitage chapel was dedicated to st adalbert and that's why the town is now a little village is called from albert i was there is actually no remained but the the parish priest is very interested in the history of ronald in the brothers and everything now but that is nothing remains with i'm honest
so the context is that auto promises that he after he sets things straight in the my empire is gonna be a monk
ah as a means of realizing his desire to become a monk otto conceive the following project he would choose some of the more fervent brothers and send them to poland they are they would build a monastery christian territory but near an area area were pagans dwell secluded and surrounded by woods
this would offer a three full advantage the community life which is what novices want golden solitude for those were mature and and thirst for the living god and the preaching the gospel to the pagans but those who long to be freed from this life in order to be with christ this is otto's idea of also bruno carpets idea i don't know
it's exactly romulus idea
but on the other hand your plugs into this you know the idea of three stages is something that obviously attracts you and you come back to it later after a few years now the and the idea of being a missionary you know he has already lost a number of his disciples to murder them and he says well why not
why not me
so that time he wants to go a poet
and anyway so the emperor there at patio near then since there wasn't the preaching to the pagans well he construct the hermitage and the monastery
and as soon as he begins of decides to build a synovium at patio as soon as we had established a hermitage he acted with the best intentions for the salvation of the greatest number that isn't the synonymous with the greatest number but on account of our sins his efforts produced the opposite effect in the end he lost the hermitage with
when they saw the emperor doing all this bahrani old many people were scandalized they accused for the old and greed ignoring the pastoral motives that guided him his intention was that the emperor might be saved through this good deed and he also saw that the monastery would be useful for winning souls
romulus personality has a contemplative and a true servant of god had one outstanding characteristic whatever people would have liked to see him do he tried at all costs to do exactly the opposite
only when he could get them to insult taunt and slander him provided he did nothing against his own conscience did he consider himself worthy of esteem and capable of preserving his virtue so this is raw mill and it's interesting that this is one of the few points
where
peter damian says almost the same thing and almost the same words as bruno up as a quivering peter damian did not notice text while the proves that this texas authentic is that it doesn't quote peter damian obviously it didn't come after peter damian peter damian life as a rando was very popular and widely diffused in
in italy so
both of them say the same thing about bundle the something anarchic about him and yet again this is within the context of a rigidly structured society and where everyone has his place as know you know you don't know they they the peasants are peasants ah there it is leading a middle-class
no townspeople who bourgeoisie as we say today when they used to say and this this aristocracy also very rigid
families are always kind of jockeying for position and trying to aliens who is going to have and be they they have their their cousin made pauper bishop whatever or they can't get the secular dominance in simply
that i think that's get us out of nothing the the context of this gap and we ought to never be
i don't ever became a monk died at the age of twenty three all these guys in this story are very young men and we gotta get this idea out of our heads you know these had graybeards all very young i think let's see now brutal preferred i think when he died and ten or nine when he would and ten or nine was in his early thirties
ah the the five brothers must have been an early twenties and mid twenties maybe twenty five something at that
romeo had a good thing he says he says they had a good age and the presale they did this this whole question about how old was wrong hill because peter damian gives him one hundred and twenty years which is impossible even if you read a diamond's book there's a whole there where we think you can fit in those extra for
the forty years
and then of course when they when they exude the the remains the same ronald in nineteen eighty
ah the anthropologist said well this man was over sixty but certainly not a hundred and twenty so rotten was born around nine fifty anyway
so when he was in the year one thousand and he had a good age bonnet at a time and everyone was saying well what does this good age and monica in in in
in some languages it means that he was very old and summit means he was in the prime of life very interesting and it just with my mother and she's from texas and she said somebody speaking about somebody around fifty that that's a good age so it's interesting i've never you never mentioned this to her but she just uses this expression to say for someone you know
around at that time they like but it was unusual for someone who live that long to arrive at the age of fifty certainly very unusual to arrive over you know that to get to be in their seventies out by that time by that time people with the if you ask how old was the old sake a century and not just just engine
donald so it's very easy for the reputation to grow up and when romulus in his last days he's bent double with arthritis he's coughing from emphysema so now he really looks old it looks as age and to say all we must be one hundred and some odd years well that's even one hundred and twenty years the age of moses
when he went in the story and he's he's always the the elders of the group in danger fifty
the
this is bruno of were pretty bruno bonobos villa barnabas one said
well i suspect there's a bit of them i mean that he's always talking about his sin of chrissy really regretted that he never got to the brothers before they were killed you know unless of course you can see this this the
paphos i mean he's a deeply regrets this nice it's all my fault i was unwilling to go across the war was on you know enter the second was already making war against bless swap who is the prince of of of poland and so the brothers couldn't come down to rome he couldn't get up to them but he could have gotten their booming area and i would say that he
could have tried at least but so he's good he's really regretting this but he goes on about it you know when you think that some time but you said when he says you know that the
i'm all corrupt and i'm i'm worthless and even my good deeds are are are are tainted with sin and
let me up
i and he's in his twenties well
yeah
but knowing he's not a anna doesn't have this this lugubrious quality because you feel in our the the the vitality of this man
ah
oh here it is yeah
so he's undecided you know and finally somebody comes along ah
who tells him about another monk who would i do got involved in politics one was lynched because he had a lot of connections with the mafia and had sort of thing
better
the web and i don't see the mafia but it's kind of implied
and so if somebody comes and tells him about this man that he knew you know and he says what can we do man's life on earth as warfare those are alive with us today are taken away tomorrow so so when the brother when the having told his tale the brother left and my thoughts began to go to me why wait any longer i asked myself and they delay no more beyond
you're way better to be killed in a pagan land preaching the good news of the savior and to stay in that swamp in one day die of malaria and so i remember the brothers and pole and finally made up my mind a goat pope sylvester and get the permission and then start out north
and i ought to have continued on to poland where it and john were anxiously waiting for me but a war was on and the roads were filled with enemy troops and so i turned my horse in the opposite direction on my unfulfilled promise of my dishonesty toward the brothers not a shadow of memory remained in my heart
ah
and then i have no no yes i have no way of knowing whether my maker will take me soon at that time two years ago inside out of his face because he's riding around ten or six at ten o five or ten six at that time two years ago i was far from salvation but the moment was closed when god's servants according
to his merciful will would bravely suffer and merit that reward i a dog was not worthy to be with saints nor was i worthy to have pearls cast before me of swine
it was my fault and no one's else i was unwilling to make the journey to the colon
there they waited a day and night they were waiting for me and i was not fit to be numbered with the saints nor to join the company of the elect i was a miserable sarah bite because the rules and i bet you know since sudo sudo hermits the ceremony pseudo hermits following my own will
and all i cared about was keeping up appearances so i abandoned my honor to strangers and my life to the cruel my law is what i like to do and my pleasure is to let my lusts leave me in the ways of the world and make me a slave of many of words i ought to be seeking my salvation but i follow my fickle heart less god save
me and said britain's on me know yeah he's i don't around
not a party
it's time it's style i mean it's all it it's a tissue of quotations from
yeah this there are you a quotation from scripture in from the problem patristic texts rather than
have been with
oh yeah i mean this is the language that they use this resolute
yeah yeah this is that psychological and then in of it but they can be introspective i mean you get the idea this he when he talks about benedict that he was also
very introspective and easily inclined to depression is he says ah
let's see now
right been the job was was
as a calmer one of the to benedict's fellows st bless at john humbly submitted to god's judgments and patiently accepted defenses they happen thanks to his innate wisdom and god's grace it was easier for him to restrain his emotions and if things could not be as he wished he wished them to be as they were benedict however was battered by wave
and he could not stand the slow passage of time unable to accept his lot in life benedict was at war with himself afraid that his holy desire might be frustrated and that has hope might fail to attain its crown and sofa

the
you
the group
where we don't have anything obscene wrangle could this is the this about him yeah yeah right well this a broom of creeper group wrote as but didn't vote
he's writing about romney that he knew him personally i mean he was with probably for about two years not very long but ah but he knew him ah very well and rondo also had a had a reputation of great virtue and not being a great
monk and a great austerity and also a very warm and loving person very tender hearted was the poor knowledge as you get this in and peter damian brings out the southern side to him this very jovial expression always radiant smile and everything you know so he had this wonderful combination of the
the the the the very austere in and and rigorous ah lifestyle and yet a very tender hearted person very warm
personality also one other thing and then we talk about the pennants of them but see for them penitence it was more pen attempts and i were repent tents and they've the the idea of the affective dimension on the fast individuals and so forth i mean yeah this could be an exercise but ah they were aware that that you can get into this is kind of an athletic trip you know
and it can be in a really good for real false thing but so they were very that the thing about all the the rhetoric of repentance and and lamenting one sense is because this was where they they they tried to give life to the the hard side of the life and all of this is a the the the focus and the and they finality of
what we call pennants was penitents was was this this attitude of constant repentance and at compunction heart and contrition is also christmas and benedict and benedict and spirit
the much closer
now
the to show a juliet
you live
he said
now fifty years and a bot to get
but is also one about the
any data loaded
sure
dream alive
the at work like spirit
yeah yeah right
yeah the seven storey mountain has has enough of that you know the without his mechanics you know it they take it at not move it out of a different context and it's it's it's a similar design and really in a way
this yeah is the over to get from it which i lived
i get excited to
you know they see
he liked vote in
the evening
it was her name
that
thirty four he was thirty four we use your thing yeah yeah he was twenty eight when he added and forty three it within twenty hours on the nation it
nothing says by
muslims like you will
later by yeah yeah
ever been from right they didn't didn't they didn't get a chance of midlife crisis than they lived out on on a real nitty gritty of monastic life and that's where it where it where it really in other
yeah better than any didn't stay long and will not let on
certainly certainly yeah they would be would they wouldn't they didn't have this this this this thing that this is gonna go on from for forty five years i have a bad
you know they got the idea i mean that was the thing you know that who was a that that can ever thomas what's his name of the
st joseph have anyone you know the preface travis i'm tom key katie katie yeah
a like he said you know the the
there are say had this had this idea you know that that hurry up and die you know and in the meantime you know you're willing to do all of this pennants
yeah fit
the internet
a poll
energy
a because he thought things were of it
well
and really says something to me that he was helped me
hotel
do you might as well
you know
he tell you
the that is
and then i can get
dial and i that
you don't need to my kids
leute
hey at reached a rather really is taking the i added added
the longest stretch to
out what else to doing here dinner and was always been that he my before reported that to go home state
great you know
one lives and for the
it does nobody
living
yeah
the
doesn't a salad
toronto
yeah right
yeah
that's another thing we don't have time really to go into this but this will be a good team to maybe next time developed the the question of solitude and how our models of solitude a very different from there's just one element of of of one the enormous difference that a lot of them experienced
a living with someone in the same little room and all minutes anything but sounds no privacy though now press the two are inseparable
not only the over
the word
or
what about them learning love and only yeah
exactly and you have this reference here to their adaptation of the their their life style and i think they're liturgy to the local things there is a reference to
the only thing that that gives me any possible clue to this is that women when the the robbers come in and they killed the brothers they take from the alter the cloth not the always done the cloth in which were the relics of saints now what is that what does called the a commence yeah okay that
the byzantine rite i don't think they celebrated the divine liturgy of st john chrysostom but it's not impossible that they celebrated the mass of st peter which was the slow ionic a slightly bizarre and eyes slavonic translation of the roman liturgy made by sinks you on the odious
which was probably what they celebrated the you know when they came to rome and st mirren nature's probably the the of they celebrated their
so that's a possibility certainly this was this was a very important point bruno corporate makes the point you must learn polish they make every effort to learn polish i say but translated polish it says
was a dialect of of slavonic and the let this the slavic languages were much closer than they are now but just for convenience and that they also poland it's called level and he has global and yeah and the in the atlantic side translated call and just because that's where it is geographically today and and to not to make a distracting
so they were the language they adopted the local coding
didn't where i haven't
they dress like the local people they grew beards they would have been like all the latin priests and monks a shade until they stopped shaving and they cut their hair short not whether it was this kind of mohawk that that became the customer and in poland for a certain period of that a poet christian in other things that shaved the sides you know let this
the night like quit like the proof you know either
didn't quit
i don't know i don't know if they went that revenue and said it says that they made themselves miserable you know by growing beards and hence the name and so wearing trousers and and all of these think they had never done so the idea of adapting a great do the greatest possible extent to the local ah
but appearances and and way they dressed and that's of the things was very much a part of mission
to bearing it role model
well
where was the martyrdom i don't i think was pretty close to two guineas no to that to which is more song shall we say
in the center point
i'm to know known as that that imploded
let's anything but uniform yup added another content nervous episode
he isn't a bad movie when he and other places where things would not done was good bye baby
just
yeah yeah they need
traffic via trent was never it was never fully applied was never fully applied the council of trent never play a planet ever and because nando council ever has been haven't had never met him he said that a spread in actually i admit they were to have number down yeah and one coming out
under both kinds of things about st romulus the way he would celebrate validity for one thing that ever ever look in on a lot of happy a lot of byzantine stuff to us the sign of the cross he made like this from right left like the greeks today impression you know
he use leavened bread and i'm not the unleavened waitress of the having is leavened bread solving math this is rob know in italy
they never that never said the create and there were whenever the puny okay you know how the
how how do we know that a liturgical history books with you know the the creed was introduced after this isn't into the roman rite in wrong i mean it was used them been in spain was little in france and other places but in in italy in the end they are
the area around rome it was the the creed was introduced in the eleventh century they consent to send certainly sent me this aspiration that yeah
hit
so they were lots of things that to yeah so there's a lot of this the liturgical pluralism but the the idea of the you know that they could be very flexible very you know adapt and and this was something that was taken for granted in was as the the editing
people means that at least way
as which this is our way of putting it this is our way of putting it on
i think was that it was the spirit of st cyril and methodius you know that was that was so inspired them to up to a certain degree at least certain the spirit of st boniface so
the the the monastery as the center of evangelization and the idea of principle them that that was from st part of the the be the earlier st boniface the one who evangelize germany and is ten
just up to the time of the concert twin of that time almost didn't it seems to be monastery and to write exam added here right now there's a lot of variety of the they would distinguish he brought a right and use you know like there was the dominican use we had to come out the museums which
very similar to the dominican was it was a the dominican was more roman than the roman rite am i correct is more like the earlier roman practice
but also cistercians at the same thing the the the high-mass would be can only ah
the single a prayer at the awkward tory know this was a are also a commodity that that this was used and done
how then after changing how that the adopted them the books and the middle of the bicep i think that's so i just as an upfront further this time i think you are but let's see i only have ten of these but i want to i'm want to get better copies and even this is only half of that the zu twenty two pages the whole things and it will be something for
for my pages so
one
okay
also i was wondering do you think that we can that we could read not the whole thing but little snippets from it at vespers i could added some of them

yeah work at table you don't not everyone is there you see them some said mcmahon put chest being hurt
on sunday the mediterranean little bit now and then enough good yeah harry
yeah they're not although my brother gave will just the kind of book it is they're not these little you know meaningful things you know what like the desert thing so it's not that exactly yeah adapt or put them to that that i can cut it you know into pieces that make it a reading yeah if i i'm reading investors vespers
will do that so one library and you can scramble for these i don't know who to give these to but the that ninety nine more copies there and then i'll try to get cut

yeah
are you going out tomorrow somebody going on tomorrow
you are not you are
see how can we have had
you know
well no actually i would because because of the the machine here is a spy spent an hour and a half to you know and it was it just to us toil and i would really rather go to a place and get decent copies made you know i'm and ah so maybe it a i can come with in carmel something criminal naked countries his
you do that
yeah that place hidden in the back there yeah yeah i had things them there so
i mean everyone where everyone can get a copy and then when i finish typing and you will have the complete thing so
ah
take one a chair with city
the northern arizona and know this has happened if it may be a little more than half of it it'll be about forty some odd pages and according to pay them for years young
well you're old you'll find typos and here i wasn't able to correct it that because the type of paper doesn't take the the white ops i have to use the white tape to correct the tables were turned
if you notice anything yet and you can just market on your copy michael health and proofread thank you
ah so we'll have another couple more meetings with this and maybe you could yeah
yeah he really only ten
i would like yeah i would like to suggest we do it kind of seminar style you know and just open it up the discussion because i'm giving you the background and then if you have questions you know
yeah
i can give you yeah i can give you a kind of assignment if you can learn
if you can read through the to page ten
that's er that'll give you can have up to the point where they leave for poland
yeah through the up to the be any chapter seven chapter seven is is
a fascinating chapter it's it's just that them the death of auto auto the third read that if you want the little war experience if the billboard
yeah it's the pagan oracle and that time to get the yeah of the gonna die right here you he did against in the in fallen him
hello
okay thank you very much
inquisitive