our task is to
what study or be chapter five on obedient
next time i'll go on of the on silence when such that's not very long also for him the chapter longer chapter on humility
together with a row of st benedict separate five goes r m seven of work which was conventionally wagner
why don't reduce with a job gannon had read this chapter we can do it another round robin
a method and that have come back and talk about with someone
been a day obedience year the first step of humanity's unhesitating obedience which comes naturally to those who cherish priced above all
the latin is a queenie he'll say be a crystal korea's more dear more precious liquid exist man
because of the holy service and they had professed her because of dread of heroin for the glory of everlasting life and carry out the superiors order as promptly as of the command came from god himself the lord has a man like this no sooner did he hear that he obeyed me again he tells teachers whoever listens to your listened to make
to wanna pick that up and continued at verse seven
such people as beans conveniently put aside their own country
abandoned kind of them
for their own will and laid down and whatever they live having hand leaving an unfinished
with the reading stem of obedience they follow the voice of authority in their actions almost at the same morning then as the master green construction cycle quickly put it into practice in the fear of god and both actions together
swift when completed as one good up to there is practically straight from the role of a master and a all one piece continually of the world and master words here at breaks and he leaves out a great
a great long part of the masters in a chapter and then returns to it roughly in the next paragraph tomato picked up on a crafty person is love that it helped him to pursue everlasting like therefore they are eager to take the era right or which the
lord said mary the road than the line
then a lot of the crime of government gives him to their whims advertise rattled i walk according to another the decisions and directions choosing to live in mastery and don't have an average ireland
men of this result creating a big on the road i've come not my remind will that the world of him present
oh
there's a long section of the of the master on the two ways the to road the way of the perfect and the way or the imperfect but the master allows for boats so some people the people who are perfect are going to a beating of a instantly as is
well has he said it above any other that much going to be more sluggish and slow but there's room for them to better curious thing he often does every different categories of people he goes on and about about the to road which was a very favorite name in ancient times you'll find it also in the new testament and the early that urges are it's a very jewish thing
and to wage
okay run here and you want to pick it up from there and worked in this area ratings on will be starting with god and agreeable man on the combined why is commanding his luggage rack card but free from any problem or any reaction of loans with the obedient show
was shown to superiors is getting the guy as he himself said where listen to you listens to me furthermore the disciples of obedience must be given gladly forgotten about through okay well if a disciple of a grudgingly grumbled not only are they are not heart than you can
a caring about and were actually not nothing adaptable and that are now
the then high you will have no reward reserves in these kind of a monetary one her lunch
well
thank you
i'm talking about we're going to talk about this again i'm about i discussed about obedience can never be a far off so what we're doing now is getting some understanding of this chapter of the role bandage background particularly the role of master and and little further back in cash in on this is a delicate subject isn't it's right at the center of the rule is
medical center of our been a victim and as president and it's something which the modern point of view a contemporary by your listed here as a lot of trouble and secular psychology and and mentality and it's something which we need to talk about even critically and yet something which is they say it's very
delicate and also has meant to be a total commitment so and speaking critically about something which involves a total commitment you can see the the delicacy and the carriage needed show you have to speak of it with respect honoring the totality that it calls for and yet being able to look at it from all perspectives that very difficult to keep together the
particularity of the duality and looking at the light and dark and questioning and change how it fits together together with the totality of the total command mode which a person wants to make plastic that particular
should we may err on the side either naive anymore but being over critical at one point or another will try to come back to the mid point
let me read something from the rubbish reading wa here it's like being
born five minutes after st thomas aquinas
refer to this summer
everything you do
i'm here we find ample expositions on the three birch is peculiar to the china by the obedient stillness because nobody quite a different letter than words used for a chapter six test eternity
in fact can relax state as a trainee doctors should come when she turned to or silence or stillness and each of them as a different modality and english because one will indicate a reserve in speech and other might suggest a total fans will get to that we come to and humility around us put together the
a trio originated with cation whose description of humility begins with expressions of obedience and ends with practices related to silence so cation has had an enormous influence when we get to the chapter seven of the steps of ability and benedict's rule will do the same time
humility involve looking at about a courage to the violence is that they had at the foreign in the last expressions of your humanity
this portrait of the humble man form the basis for our will catch up from humility represented by a ladder on which were obedient that growth towards the beginning of stillness towards the end
the three virtues or the internet maybe they'll be one of them includes the other two and we're going to examine the connection between them of course
that is humility and includes obedient and silence the nobody is in modern interior virtue of the other two are quite quite activity or that way the real expresses
the masters chapter on obedience is five and i have time to log of it spent on it cuts out a lot and then it's very central for the master and he doesn't have something doesn't have to be absolutely central for him to go on and on about it but obedient says
he begins with the outward forms of obedience which can be fairly speedy he then developed that make the cut edges treatment i guess he then developed it like the contrast between the wide road for the sarah bites who do not obey and do what they want to do and the narrow road of cinematic obedience which goes so far as to imitate martyrdom i make attempts to the interior as
the month must have a joyfully
about must have a joyful each of these three parts provides benedict but some of the material
his tech like that of his corner begins with the outward spectacle of the obedient my vs one to for nine that the narrow ways can do it up with hardly
nothing of the length of treatment that domestic is it finally the interface
fourteen than actual right away you know there's a contradiction in the first verse here we don't have to be a critical scholars to pick this up the first step of humility is unaided hesitating obedience he says here if you look at chapter seven
the first step of humility than is that a man keeps the fear of god or it before his eyes next chapter seven
first time
so it looks like two different people were doing this but there's a fairly rational explanation in a footnote in the early nineteen eighty
this which is that now that the ladder of humility chapter ten going to come from cation and when
and cation as i remember has the first degree of humility as obedience doesn't it
so then when the master picks it up before verdict he decides when it gets to that chapter to put in a couple of more degrees in humility before you get to have been okay so it does that but he doesn't go back and change hooded it but before that the he didn't think of them
it's fairly reasonable explanation for a very strange contradiction which after all doesn't matter much does it because you realize that this expression the first step is a rhetorical expressionism and otherwise it's not a scientific treatise on functionality for
the way that has put together so it puts us on our guard about the whole question of the structure of chapter seven that nobody checked we were not taken to over seriously the way one thing other than other would importantly is the element
huh
so the ruin as has two grades of monks

to hold nothing there that tries to check those one of the maximum found in the previous chapter and has already the master is according to the master trade peculiar to the small number of perfect brothers who will pay with no delay whatever as for the greater number a master allowed less speedy obedience
and asked me edit without somebody had to stop which you have to be kind enough to reiterate his commands benedict does away with this distinction he has no patients with these things and puts before of all the ideal of immediate obedience
then there these motivations
hum the fear of hell the hope of heaven and the service the commitment one has undertaken
that sounds like
you know
teixeira no need for stuff is your guy cooper
that's right investment
on that of course comes there's a little oven and them to the new testament to the first letter of job love casts out fear and where else do you find them give giovanni tomorrow
moving from here to love interesting
that's how unpleasant i remember him pitch
one job it's amazing the first to it says you know it comes naturally to was cherished christ to the lodge as
but the movements fury help not sure he gives you a little a spread of a little array of mode it's possible motives it doesn't which would relate to the different different grades
people go
advanced more or less
where did the game is on average good
savage him something that profession remember the idea of the scholar the school and the school also means something like accord school or military school and well in a masters snoke it's the the bow the commitment i believe
and therefore the whole monastic life of whole monastic congress accio you might say
ah but it's in the language of
that of those institutions i think this might become sicker than it doesn't mean anything or particular them
so you really really do have a a broad spread of possible motives
and sometimes remember wishes we found this before that sometimes levels of the beginning i know that in a chapter when she was a good worse chapter four and sometimes love is that kind of fear is it to begin right is it does attention a conflict between us to structures and the role of benefit
one of which is more natural to st augustine the other one is more natural and cash
who likes ladders
but the new testament doesn't like letters that touched to smash them so it'll start out with the and it starts out with the totality of grazed the totality of of the holy spirit so on and then a progression some house within that but it's difficult to put one thing after another
it's always difficult to mecca structures and ladders and schemes and the new testament because it has a very strong centering and unity of drive which brings everything down to wanting to one central point which is very pressure
it's like buddhism in that sense
okay there's a whole on
there's a whole
scriptural background to this which is a little complex and needs little examination because to there are a lot of logical inference is being made here several of them which do not necessarily follows we have to see what's going on in for instance ah
if it's asserted it will be inches the way to go to god will it does the new testament bears that out and does it bear it out in the same way that it's being asserted here and is it the same thing to obey a religious superior entered the omega and that's the delicate link valley which the master master forges
according to
dabbagh way is almost unique unaware that he doesn't watch that michael and st benedict just carries on not after
now there are two phrases in the new testament which especially make the christ blank hear one of them is whoever listens to you listened to me
and the other winners have come out to do my own web development shop so the first one establishes obedience to christ okay in a new testament to second when the obedience of christ and those are the two lakes as it were for you can say the two faces of obedience and our rules alternate between the two
however the the first is stronger in our rules
christ is lord is stronger
no contemporary executive course would have very many things to say about the presence about the expression whoever listens to your listening to make they would say what to to to are saying that and is a statement in any way circumscribed or doesn't pretend to a particular kind of listening
does it pertain to the the first hearing of the gospel french descent conversion okay what does it pertained to order within the church order within the community what what does it govern or kind of be absolute toast so the monastic right has taken very broadly
according to the first of these tape much crushed as the one who command according to the second on her gaze monastic obedience derives its incomparable value from this to for group it is both of obedience to christ and obedience in the image of crist
and that's fine because the unity perspective of especially monasticism giant those two
and we are in christ we are part of christ and yet in some way we relate to crushed as disciples as servants
the foundations and the rule of a master or behind the role of a master are quite complex now the vulgar way i'll try to simplify this debacle vocaloid picks out to series of to to great foundations the first one is is this series of gospel text
it's and which
you've got first a commentary on the our father and thy will be done and avago era from the massdrop confusing him a devoted
and then the master goes on and comment on that at length and opposing self-will to the will of god so you're getting a structure in which self-will is being seen as queen contrary absolutely opposed to the will of god so to do the web to pray that i will be done
is to pray my chauffeur will not be done and and that is coming from the flesh that is the the human where the scene has fallen and the were coming from the flesh it's delicate territory there because he's not saying that the human will in itself as evil but he comes a mighty close to it and it's not saying that the body as you
well but he's gonna mighty close to that such very
very delicate territory and contemporaries would have a lot of trouble of course for the way the domestic says it
but it's a completely vertical scheme were in which the will of the flesh number in galatians of the spirit in the flesh are opposed to one another and the the flesh cannot be subject to god and cannot vi ska i was he mean by the flesh but as paul mean by the flesh early exit executes as he means not the body as such but the
whole person under the influence of evil under the influence of selfishness or hundred therefore the influence of its baser instincts and therefore the center of gravity somehow
lower resident higher not the center of gravity not being a spirit not being god's not paying me better instincts but the baser instincts but the expression are not just and purity but i'll show her anger evers and other kinds of things every stress was especially dissension hatred
ah so the masters is taking all of that was a kind of picking it up with a great sweep and and well they can altogether
let me see if a list in one place those texts okay here the first foundation of a doctrine of obedience in the masters therefore constituted by three texts series or texan and a testament to prayer to up by christ matthew sixty or father that will be done the example he gave at matthew twenty so
six thirty nine forty two which is jesus and get somebody remember father is can pass away but not my well the taiwan peter
and john six thirty eight a comedown from haven't had to do my own over development shopping and then they are teaching of of pub in which much galatians five sixteen to seventeen in which the spirit as opposed to the flesh
hey
and then the second foundation is the transition from
obedience to god to obedience to the attic obedience to a human person and that's a very tricky one that's a big leap okay remember whether the apostles said to the priestess on girl is better for us to where they got to have a pen so the new testament doesn't easily unequivocally let you keep it
place a transition from the will occur to the will of man you've gotta be careful with does another prophetic word that says look out that can be a betrayal
any questions about that complex business
there are several places southern of other places in row the master where these things you put together for instance in the are sunk to their chapters be not to fulfill the desires of the flesh to hate ones on well to be obedient to the admonition to the either you see the same structure there but not in as from away
and then in the first three degrees of on
he's maybe counselors is article exaggeration
life
not a drop fine i'm taking yes i do follow it it's hard to tell me because we we don't have a if we had a film video and life in the monastery can see what they were up to but yes i do think so just as in a homily and a monastic homage forever and the harmonies of abbott's forever you
i have a principal have several times to you'll have one principal taken like obedience
preached as if it were a divine on question about an absolute virtue in which all salvation and all been asking perfection or contain okay that's been done forever
it's not done so much foundation yet somehow things have to be put into perspective and people don't usually accept that kind of thing they'll be a lot of a lot of murmuring and discontentment after that camera presentation yeah for some of them
and also we have to remember the context and they are just what was going on and it but this is something that we have to think about a central return to again and again throughout our lives because it's that it's center pin of the religion magnetic this issue of opinions
he talks at something to avoid or just don't like about how this is central to the role of the master

obedience is necessarily at the heart of a monastic institution which divides it defines itself as scarlet have an ace vivid she manages her to school the road surface
the importance of obedience and a master's eyes there are also from the relations of this virtue of the fundamental team of hearing according to an etymology of which are also was quite conscious and which brother david has revived in her on time about the right to obey is connected with it to hear but to here is surely the keyword
the masters entire spiritual doctrine she's coming is century again to bug lawyers on that notion of school as he does very often he sees that as being the key word to the whole of the roller master and the direct line of biblical tradition he represents god as a person who speaks to man and says that man must listen if he wants to be saved
not by chance to are two rules begin with an invitation to listen
about dearie
is it about director a direct and a vibrant be theory and the product
to listen and the full sense of the word a sculptor just contact
to listen on a full sets of the web means not only to here and to understand but also too acquiescent okay
obedience to superiors which is the proper motive the check proper object to the chapter on obedience had connected passages derives it's important for being a privilege in europe of amount of listening to the word which changed
an obedient seems to be the most important for the astra these to be virtues that he puts together obedient sounds in humility

an effective oak away
seize the uniqueness of the root of the master largely in this then the central issue the masters theory therefore remains unique is just been comparing them with caution caution has some of these separate ideas about humility but he doesn't put them together with the same ironclad coherence although the school
pro material and uses as found scattered and various authors and almost completed basil the construction rematch his alone
it is the fruit of an exercise and reflection and organization of which the literature of ancient monasticism offers no other example now this is true also of benedict's definitive except this basic structures so this vertical structure as it were as at the heart of both worlds so it's at the heart of our own tradition
now wa contrast to lines this vertical line of caution and the role of the master and the rule of st benedict and which obedience is
direct matter between the individual monk of obeying the will of god by denying one's self oil okay
he contrasts that was the line of augusta and others in which the fundamental issue is not this individual relationship with god but communion that is in which the communities the fundamental reality and obedience is in function of living somehow christian
life fluid and in the context of that community that we we briefly how he doesn't it

and the eyes of the master obedience as a matter of salvation for reached cycle how to do the will of god and not no not at all once on will according to the example of christ this is the primordial problem and solution lies in obedience to the teachers the only person of them purpose of the monastery school
as to make it possible therefore it is spoken of a dealership and this runs through our whole tradition need interpreters the benedict and writers the cistercian writers will take this mine through st bernard and right up to write up to today for augustan on the contrary the do double duty of obeying seems to result from the fact that
amongst her gathered and a fraternal community
this community requires a leader who owns the place of the problem here the primary element is the society the society does not exist to secure the direction of a teacher it is valid by itself and for itself as a communion a parts in a community of goods and charity
susanna accustomed first restaurant on the primacy of loves me and of communion and a community he's much more what would you say theological and this action on understanding the big a biblical revelation the new testament revelation the superior is only an organ necessary and date and will by god but isn't a necessity of needs rather than salvo
ocean secondary not primary
obedience is seen by the master and a thoroughly individual perspective even if it has it's obligatory framework of a monastery school cause the church augusta it's perspective is more deeply communitarian and ignores the theme of the imitation of christ and renunciation of self will to do the will of god and considers obedience from the front
view of the carbon light
that's interesting because we often think of st augustine in terms of the light of his doctrine operation of social and which you would expect exactly that miniature you'd expect the humans will to be seen as a deeply flawed and needing the corrective
rule of of a superior but that's not the way to takes it the communion predominant and that's something that we really need to bring back and contact with and on benedictine tradition
it's ironic because past
journalist says ed rooms same religion and and waste hundred and they and they were not something that you'd expect augusta is predestination and that's right not sure i visited know that's ironic
there are a lot of ironies and a lot of a twists for instance st benedict has a very strong sense of of monastic community and i believe in a monastic community but it doesn't make it explicitly that he doesn't write on a theology of if you if he were the master had that vision he would have theology guys to know forever and beautifully to but he doesn't
at all
it's just in his practical practical councils and directions that it comes out and the primus had it goes to love and the crime of city gives to the quality of community life for nobody should be said and house of cards respect for the indian so on the primacy effect now there's a twist
so we have to be careful too easy making theological judgment and i think a matthew fox tends to be like i have put somebody in one basket and blue states they're like guest and as not a simple
president especially augusta because he's much bigger than and eleven inside over here which corrects something's whatever their but most of us don't absorb enough of that to be able to follow the centers for to make the sentences to the he doesn't make explosion
okay i wanted to read something from thomas merton's product when contemplation a world of action called a place of obedience because what he's trying to do
in the nineteen sixties and the time a vatican two is too
broaden and deepen the concept of obedience in a way which brings out this value and veracity of accustomed he's talking about obedience as and sometimes it was really murderous and a large monastic communities for instance you know where you would think either obedience was intended to rub you want
ground and to extinguish you in some way that so this summer lily my grow up on your ravens
or obedience was to make you a useful tool for the glory of the monastery okay or for the good functioning of the monster and unfortunately whatever the supernatural value of the obedience often i think that's the way watch okay that somebody was like a soldier
like an employee or something like that obedience with absolute ties that they could give it a supernatural a divine sanction and martin is fighting that and the trappist life that could be some a bottle that most of those in the old days because you have a big trappist monastery which was very efficient and so on
i'm on a practical level and maybe had a farm and had the administration things and to keep it smoothly running people needed to stay in their places and there was this unquestioning obedience but that at the same time had an aesthetical doctrine of that sort of extinction of the personality of the human will so the two of them together a pretty power
for and oppression
i'll read a pages so about this in which you can save the transition is kind of trying to make his his criticism of obedience as of is practiced say before up through the nineteen fifties and is largely in terms of alienation that a person them people outside we're alienating because they were going to say
working in factories on day i had no meaningful of you know that everything they were doing it on a totally detached from their own life and meaning for somebody else a profit meaning for somebody else no meaning to them no interior me
and the whole of life can be that way and some a modern context so miraculous complaining will look people come from from the world and the monastery to get away from that and here with reinstituted it the monastery we have devised an equal machine of alienation for them and been largely operated by means of
obedience so that's what he's angry about
and i imagine that any trappist by for those data that was quite a bit of that certainly was never maliciously done but those to motives the acetyl-coa motive and then they the ideology of the absoluteness of the habit the evidence as the only
jose the only way to to salvation and obedience is the only way to salvage it's too narrow to inherit conception that plus a utilitarian think and remember that americans tend to be pretty practical so an american trappist monastery it can be a fiercely pragmatic monastir about putting material thing
sure
in
a a central place that has or what he's doing as he's looking at the
evolution
of eucharistic theology and comparing the development out a vision of obedience to the first operate a little bit of issue is a complaining the summons to offer himself as a victim of holocaust on the altar of religious perfection without even a real
reasonable hope that the sacrifice for makes sense where be a real used to him a person's but only to the impersonal institute leaves him in a state of serious doubt about the words of the religious by good show
now often when somebody expressed doubts let's say we're not have a vocation now belong here are or that's a lack of faith in our lack of generosity to diagnose this is cowardice or lack of generosity is more often than not equivocation the same religious and a situation that they are better able to comprehend can give themselves most generally
generously
cliches about blind obedience make tomato religious feel and not without reason that his objections are simply being waved aside without even being considered kick theology has up until recently viewed them and ask the religious by almost exclusively in terms of sacrifice and immolation
an outlook that corresponded to the medieval liturgical farms in which the host was primarily a victim emulated in the distant and invisible sanctuary and image that mysterious words and rights which the faithful observant about uninitiated silence
his fame it pretty heavy of course for thirty there was a good deal with that of that mystique
which is completely vertical ignores community and much a ignores or would you call it ignores the church and as such a whole sense of of the body of christ
and is also
mystique of meaninglessness in the sense of blind obedience blind sacrifice nothing growing inside which makes the reality present to you in this life
the nothing developing no interior transformation or illumination by which you might be able to move
to proceed more and more meaning or deeper and deeper meaning as you go on okay now at one side the other side is that i think people often do because they were on them and evidence but so there may be a fought with a structure that maybe i thought would be with they have or dakota mentality where the doctrine of the spirituality but sent my god works in the individuals so
sanctification and illumination was happening but about often in spite of the system rather than because question
certainly the religious life as a sacrifice and so as the match but just as theology now stresses the eucharist is a sign of fraternal unity and demands active and intelligent participation and a common act of worship so the old theology of the religious life needs to be completed and filled out with a new perspective and which the obedience of love rooting and
face it comes at once the sign and a principal living unity in christ and a way of returning to the father kenneth with a loving obedience of christ
this eucharistic concept of obedience is aimed not an abstract impersonal common good
but at a concrete personal and a mystical unity of love in christ indeed of a common good remains external to the religious and affected by foundation professionally instead of that the fruit of obedience is are living in life life-giving spirit who is at once god's gift to each and the unifying vanderhoof here instead of the religious being forced back into the isolation of his indigo
original will
which he exerts
she scuse me an order to obtain for himself an abstract geometrical reward
can think of abstract geometrical be attitude and afternoon matter he has drawn into the living dynamism of fervor and love which gives meaning to his by by enabling them to contribute personally into the meaningful life with his brothers in christ
obedience then becomes an expression of the new life and the new creation which restores the simplicity and piece of paradise parodies this class travelers the monastic pyramids to a communal life in which each as the servant of wall and each find fulfillment in a meaningful service of blood that has inspired and vivify by the presence of christ and his spirit
the end of christian obedience is then not merely order and organization not the abstract com and good but got himself the epiphany have gotten his church and in the microcosm of the new creation which is the monastic community
okay that's beautiful but i think he's cheating a little bit too subsidies idealizing and
we have to talk cause he knows how bad better that that much torture function because he was in a big monastery where he played in some touch of those their mind because of the inhumanity of of the whole spirituality
and yet there was a personal relationship with god through obedience which is is not talking about something about the structure is talking about the general system he's not talking about what goes on inside heartily a monk who in good faith obeys and in that way has an immediate relationship or obeys in the context of and me
idiot relationship with god and christ it's not as if that relationship isn't there even when the the authority has been bad used for the it to in some way as being misdirected and abused ah but he's talking about what is a dysfunctional or neurotic kind of setup okay in which there's a lot of a lot of sickness
will be bred will be caused by the the lack of humanity and the lack of real spirit like a real wisdom indeed and the operation that absolute and irresponsible use of obedience and use of authority as sometimes
sometimes average and the old check you don't see much of this name or but abbess would be a little bit like army generals or a little bit like cocky military officers you know who had that sense of absolute power and that they didn't have to respond to anybody little the that lot of that bravado then it
he was promoted by the mistaken they haven't which was unchallenged on questionable
you don't say much of it anymore
the other thing is that he is he's replacing one question of of the hints by another isn't his replacement for vertical on by the horizontal my card came from obedience as direct relationship with god with christ mediated through the security
to obedience as service and therefore in function of of communion and not in a sense of order but in the sense of what would you a smoothness not other center of keeping a good order of a community but in a sense of the peace and tranquility and
joy and love in the spirit which would be the optical to fabric or the atmosphere of such a community of such a christian community so i think what he's doing it is setting aside one model because i'm in another part but we know that no bottle is adequate to these thanks to these mysteries to the jewelry
allergy symptom of the spirit of christianity
and therefore one have go
it's very much like setting aside the institutional model of the church member a dollars models and church institution commanded sacrament era other creature servant and it's very much like setting aside the institutional model and replacing it with you might say eucharistic model but it's it's not quite so
sacrament sack in sagra on the motto of mystery of community church which i think it's much more satisfactory than the institutional model but needs at some point requires the institutional mom but it's not quite that either because the a vertical notion of obedience is not just institutional
it operates through an institutional video but it's not only institution
any comments or questions about all this well as i'm just thinking about that emerges subscribers and see that the medical where everything's run a concentration camp during whereas what we're really trying to adverse market diffusion can the resumption confuse every way matter of them
most how often visited
i think that's true and yet
i wouldn't a a to the other side of different the other side little bit connected to vertical the verdict was there the new testament front and village it's almost as if ah a to pulses by desire to pulses to respiration that as inhaling and exhaling and to to cause us to move us to the human heart
it's as if there are a tumor much of the spirit does a movement of contraction and whole lot of expansion the movement of expansion i think it is the movement of communion we can image of tabloid just for a moment that state the movement of love where love abounds and where things are done with simplicity with generosity and with age you know because the spirit as there and because we exp
variance because we're in a context to vote on the other hand the movement of contraction
this is damage is not perfect and the movement of contraction is because like the winter of the soul whereas like wartime instead of peacetime there's the time actually one or will does run into a war
the time when
we find ourselves in crisis or find ourselves in contradiction and we find ourselves in some way wrestling with god as jacob was okay and you can call it the nighttime or something like that there there are those times and i think that's when this this question of that's when we meet the cross
their my spirituality would say him tradition would say and at those times is this vertical obedience is very much in question
zahra deeply also give the the scriptures not only of the new testament to the old testament abraham and isaac the sacrifice of isaac
so the trouble is when that out show the ties you have an ngo and a totally oppressive and destructive and it can also become cynical almost so that the people who operate really are are sitting there are comfortable and the control room as it were a while everybody else is ground into the it it can
be like a totalitarian system political system you know and when you compare it with a concentration camp there for it i think the comparison is valid method extreme but that isn't an exaggeration there is a place for this which is very much any questions or very much in the shadow now since vatican two
the problem dr those just from trashing implications and you can see the random static on what you're talking method with the diner two years was laboratory nonsense
begging
and also they of gives me they interact and other ways for instance in this this life of community and let us hear the for eternal life you're very often packed you run into the crisis more often or them into in the vertical direction a collision between your will and what you perceive as the spirit okay that is i don't like this
person and or for the look what he's doing to me look what he said to me and i'm to respond to charity which respond with the it's the same damage is on this level but and living in a vertical structure it's a concentrated as it were in the abbot and name and the indian and obedience
i think it murdered have taken more time he also would have developed that you would have developed and that same element development is the same as it were cross appearing here on the horizontal that appears on the american but what we've done in a way the the horizontal tends to be natural the of comes to be artificial business and other which the huh
natural expression of christianity are living in a community which is a natural a christian way to live where you meet those conflicts humid that cross just in the everyday course of a relationship you don't have to you don't have to create anything artificial that will happen in the world is rather than the family as well as in monastir monastery is a tighter
isolate you can save it whereas the article on as a result of something artificial
you could say institutional you can say that it's instituted by christ but when you're talking about it in a monastic context you got to make a week there you know that you can't quite equate obeying a monastic security with obeying the bishop or with obey christ not immediately and others we do we a common as
dick amendment but everybody doesn't have to make that commitment everybody doesn't have to make that a blip that connection i think i'm getting a little
a little obscure but
the monastic structure is an artificial structure and we have to recognize that that that element of obedience and that therefore contains it
contingent aspect of artificiality them
this is this of arms around the river when it gets penalized too much become really struck structure yet and on the one hand
no i don't know that's from the nineteen fifties the same song
who is more like i'm looking for guides for the in as going to come from the way yeah jeremy are happening there are no peter listen now charles up work with interesting as comes to that's when when you come into his context me say that to superiors they can very frightened that will only be even better it's not
me and find yourself wondering mom is a where is where on a different world you'll find a few people who will tell you that's made for here goes
sometimes a charismatic movement and occasionally a collector of a community i'd immediately get my purse taken
but if you go way back to the original tradition there's something very deep they're located in freshness that we idealize with on a bed fitted desert while of traditional area or realized as turkey and the disciple comes to that bastards has father time i want to do and then he sees perceive something in the master and that's something to appreciate resonate with his own heart and opens up that
the second himself okay that begins to know it's own realization begins to know it's on for voluntary and and then on the basis of that explore the parents' relationship is created and he's led but now that he's gonna be about sometimes and sweet meadows okay where he willingly and lovingly does what the master says but he's going to be led through
true to our places to work the master tells them something that goes against the grain and his his faith is confident in that relationship is severely tested
and so that we both seasons also another village but we don't find much of that today i think to us to a certain extent you can find a good so far as the disciple brings face to the relationship with with any sort spiritual father and there's a certain degree of that but we don't have the same simple and absolutely abyss
thirty two
do naive ability you could say uncritical ability to put ourselves into them which not for long i did when i came here i had a kind of i think it complete responsibility with it was enormous amount of the maturity and i either you of the that had also to be corrected i couldn't just be led inside that a heaving
yeah right because i've a guy standing on the present from that relationship or simple obedience is that when whether the cyber comes through the master of masters as tell me your thoughts and he's one person's that china all those stories as or makes them article about chromosphere on
the the fathers and of customers me and he says me your thoughts he doesn't giving advice it doesn't tell me what to do when the when the science has given your word it's usually from scripture and it's usually very simple
i i it's best computer government and something about it is
now is what i mean onset is the one nine natural obedience that if it's subtle to the cyprus talk to obey by now had actually thousand this by doing those things teaching you something that you don't even realize now i think there's quite a lot of that today know there's a lot of
listening today no one thing that we can say is that we've learned how to listen graham
really act as i said i came from a people one thing come from having to completely rethink get little that come around and find it actually wide him he was here a said that a ranch or happening for
think that to the in the father gives a word of scripture and the sample would affect scriptures is yeah just computer mouse and is pontiac the some of the tour when it's as if something else is happening to suit different he gives him that word is if the spirit of thousands
sits on that would otherwise there's a kind of anointing and the and a responsible father okay which goes along with the anointing which to decide but perceived and and the ideal case okay that so that that word that month begins to grow and becomes almost like somebody has given to them by an angel so i may only take one or two words and goes away and if he doesn't somehow
that's his way at that time so that there's a magic at that point
the to grow things happen why is that the diameter of the thursday and without to by surprise the tanks the words of christ gives into the food and i bet it's because it's that particular our is doing it since two things not just that it's christ's work it's most good of these bad particular man and that
the relationship and angles and spirit to breathe those words are you going you may have heard them any time before because that particular so there's no one on the general this wasn't the paris concrete particular so that they you have a up in cyberspace space with roots with the institutional masks
mom obedience the specificities particularly but also you have a sublime connection with god and how is the at com representative of christ because he speaks the words of christ and then the crash course there's a pastor actually to speak christ's moons i usually go that's not the gospels
and the who are separated
i'm always looking at that to say
where would you be immediate is like you know like when the i would say come your thoughts
cindy the album like this
and then when when and disciple says the new word he says worth the price will then the disciple to consoles and still it's like listening on both parts ah
and it's the act of the angel in owning a banner with that is isn't real
he's the real die happening and acting kind of i guess i'm looking at today turns
does not have a lot of a my version direction basically are listening that empowers the other condition so that were god can be realized because it's already happened and think so
it's just anything cognition punishment saying that if you're listening a dollars
by one powers other and the television
which is a weakness and and in africa
reveals that makes clear if they're listening to in the the teachers who decided to this and then says is the world and it's not the answer with christ child so busy so it's listening it's always listening these boys obedience and the alamo is the living manuel pinto beans the purchasing as who sent to outcomes myself one person who has never a
this is the other the his own ego is nine all it's not it's word it's not use advice and and ease with which to with
and as an that and new yeah i think of you know like the
that we don't have and happened today you got a lot of that because if you really listening we're we're perhaps it happens today with once they are saying listen to what is our and
yeah
sometimes there's another dynamic tension this almost wordless and other that the memo with the disciple just come and sit and look at a national economic doesn't even ask for work one of the desert was a one ever me your community father to have to see you so that and there can be a kind of transmitter
one of the spirit which i think is the essential thing which is is without words or maybe with a touch with gesture things that have been lost in our tradition yellow thing is if this whole change
we we don't call it a patristic age for for no reason that's a paternal age okay and a patriarch of age and and the anointing shat upon the father mining upon the the elder paternal figure is no longer trip so we have to ask where does the and nine except nowadays okay and part of it is learning our own potential
in some way so the the avenue whoever it is has to really catch us on one on creativity to that spark of the ability to to become a whole or for being from within ourselves and i think the anointing very often shits not on one of the other but in the encounter and the moment okay yeah annoying will appear at that magic moment when it
one was listening see something and then and then respond to everything happens you know but it's not a that's not nearly as easy to to hold as it wasn't the outage the i think we have a greater respect for them equal level of return on that page
learn i will find my rose ah
ha moments of insight talking to an unequal problem
our assistant but not someone i had to look to grasp on although i of account cause and still in japan and i know what that means the respect that surrounds the bottom of the youngest in a hole in try had today we're learning another lesson has a very hard lesson from this
monastic tradition to here to it's very difficult putting things together for the content with respect for the tradition that listening to the spirit in our hearts
okay thanks for the discussion of but it was quite good so next time i'll go on or the chapter on chance
that i think we should talk for three hours
that