Monastic History

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Monastic History Class




We're going to treat the Cluniac monasticism. How many of you have not read The Life of St. Romuald yet? Everyone else has. OK. Well, I'm going to treat Romuald tomorrow. So if you'd start a read, I don't have to, you know, stay up into the middle of the night reading Romuald. But if you read it, have it read by next Wednesday, and then we can discuss The Life of Romuald next Wednesday, before I begin Cistercian monasticism. I should have mentioned, I only noticed this morning that I was that close. Is it in here or is it somewhere else? Yeah. No, it's in there. OK. All we have in English, you know, is a rough, well, not a rough, it looks, the manuscript looks rough. It's things crossed out and written all over it, and that's all we have in English.


Hopefully this summer we'll finally get at least the general gist of The Life into publication. But that's all we have right now. It is in Italian. If you want to read it in Italian, very nice Italian. Do you know what time this is going to be? Yeah. And I think that's his English translation also. OK. The first one. Before we begin then, is there anything at all regarding the reading for today? Does anybody have any questions or comments regarding William of Century, his Golden Epistle? Are you going to talk some about him today? No, when we get to the Cistercians. You've got Berner in here, too, before. Yes, they're backwards. We're going to do Berner next week.


In fact, for next week, next Wednesday, next Wednesday and Thursday, you want to do that last reading, which is, it's the second to the last in the reader. I think I have them backwards. Yeah, that one. Romuald is put last in the reader. It really should be before Berner. But as of next Thursday, please bring your readers next week, because we'll need them Wednesday and Thursday, if there are any questions. And then you're done with them. Done with it for the course. So get that Berner read this coming week, then, during the next seven days. William of Century is a rather odd bird. He's a Benedictine, but for all practical purposes, he was Carthusian, because he lived most of his life with the Carthusians, when he wasn't being named back to the Benedictines.


But he loved the Cistercians and kept trying to get into the Cistercians, but they wouldn't let him. But they claimed him. So you have William of Century, Benedictine, Cistercian, Carthusian. An odd situation. He was very taken with the Cistercian reform, but we'll talk about that next week. Right now we want to talk about the Black Monk reform of Cluny. I just, if you remember correctly, I've just been touched upon it, because here now we're backtracking. Just like with all these other subjects, we take a step back again, because this is going on at the same time as Bohm and Guigny and those other reforms are going on. You get the beginnings of Cluny, I'm cold already. It's not cold anymore, is it? I had chills last night. Hot, cold sweat, blankets around me.


Sad as my cab. If you remember, I mentioned that the Duke William of Aquitaine had given some property to Bernot at Bohm. Now Bohm was one of those centers of monastic reform. Let's get back to the strict monastic rigor. And he had been given some property in William's area, which is called Cluny. Okay, let me give you a little bit background. William himself wanted to set up a monastery there, and he wanted this monastery to be totally exempt. We've seen a couple instances of that in the past. Not far, far. Bobbio, Montecassino to a certain extent, Fulda, Fulda in Germany.


Those three had exemption, which meant no bishops or rulers could meddle with them. They were under the protection of the Holy See. With Cluny, that becomes widespread. And down until Vatican II, the monastic orders, especially the Benedictines and Cistercians and Carthusians had exemption, total exemption from any bishops meddling in their affairs. They went under the Holy See. Anyway, he wanted Cluny and all of its possessions, which is going to mean something down the line, put under, set up under just the Holy See. So no rulers could get in there. Even he couldn't screw around. No one could meddle with that monastery. Who is this guy? You said William? William of Aquitaine is the civil ruler who gives the land to them, to Brno.


Okay. Brno wants to, wants to reform even more strongly than is going on already at Bohm. And you get two parties going on at Bohm. I mean two like political parties. Those who want to go even further in the reform, like their abbot wants them to do, like Brno wants them to do, and others who are just satisfied with what they're already doing, which was, it was a good reform. It wasn't shabby or anything. And he wanted the practices of Benedict of Anion preserved. He wanted to do it Benedict of Anion's way. Remember Carolingian monasticism? And he wanted all of his monasteries in this stricture reform to be uniform.


That is, everybody does, prays the same office. They all have copies of the same manuscripts. They all have the same herrarium. The schedule is the same. He wants it all the same. So there's not a lot of hassle or fighting back and forth. He wants uniformity, especially in what they eat, in how they pray, how they chant, how they keep silence, how they observe their Benedictine poverty, their Benedictine obedience, vis-a-vis Benedict of Anion, and how they dress. And this is what ruffled the feathers at home. They thought, why do we have to get so specific? Why does it have to get down to all of this? It's just not necessary. And we've got two camps going on. His reform movement actually prevailed,


but not without a split. And that is, some of them went off to, let's see, the houses of Digny and Beaumont themselves, so these were both centers of reform, were given to the opposition. And Cluny and others became Bernot's houses. Cluny got Odo sent to it to start it out, basically. Odo was the right-hand man of Bernot back in Beaumont. Okay, that gives you the picture. So the Reform Party, in essence, traipsed off to Cluny to begin this new monastic reform.


St. Odo is the first abbot. He was really the spiritual father of Cluniac monasticism. He was a noble, and he was given a very, at a young age, a very Spartan military upbringing and training and a general education at the court of Duke William, that is, the duke who gave them the land to begin with. So he also knows the biggie, the count, the duke, and is a nobleman to boot. So, and while he was no dummy either, because while he was back at Beaumont, after he became a monk, he was in charge of the school at this reformed abbey, Beaumont, under Bernot. At Cluny, the life itself in the beginning years was extremely frugal and very hard,


just like at the beginning of the Cistercian movement. Same thing, real hard living, just barely making it. And Odo introduced the reform, the Beaumont reform, plus what Bernot wanted added to it. At Cluny, he did it Bernot's way. And he was one who lived by example rather than giving a bunch of laws. I mean, this man was incredibly holy and revered during his lifetime already by many. His nickname was the grave digger because he always walked like this with his head bowed, looking at the... He wasn't a melancholic individual or anything like that. That was his way of humility. He always walked with a bowed head.


Either that or that's just the way he walked. My grandpa walked that way. Cistercians fostered that. Well, that's going to be later, though. But usually most of the old guys that I saw were... Well, you know, even when I became a monk in 67, they gave us that line. Walk with bowed head, custody of the eyes. That helped him. Custodia oculorum, oculorum. And Odo's real... His main thrust was the prayer life. He was a very holy man, and the choir was everything to him. And so he increased the choir load at Cluny right from the beginning. And this, of course, is going to catapult. Over the years, this is going to increase, increase, increase


until there's the point where there's no time for anything but prayer. And so you have everyone doing others... You hire others to do the work and all of that stuff, and you just do your 8-hour shift of prayer. But that comes later. But it started with Odo. Also under Odo, and for many, many decades in Cluny, they will have the grand silence. I mean, they do not speak at Cluny. They have absolute silence, perpetual silence. That is, if you're going to speak, you have a sign language you use. Well, Cistercians are also going to use this down the road. It's going to be a different language, but it's the same concept. In fact, when I became a monk at St. John's in the 60s, sign language was also in vogue there, but only at times when they had to be silent.


So at night or at meals, you know, so pass the milk, you know, the meat for the honey and all that. You had all these code signs for what you needed to do. You needed to pass people or what they needed brought to the table, that sort of thing. What Odo accomplished, and he wasn't there all that long. He was only there 15 years. These are years of rain, not lives. These are how long they are out. Look at some of them. Incredible, 50 years is out. And that's going to be the strength of Cluny. The strength of Cluny, the real strength, is that they have, within 200 years, five extremely capable saintly men who were politicians, diplomats, economists,


saints, liturgists, all put into one. And because of that, became the greatest and most powerful reform movement ever to happen. Oh, green isn't such a good idea, you can hardly see it. Anyway, those three, the saints. Some of the monks at Cluny in the early years got ruffled feathers over this perpetual silence business and the sign language. But Odo was convinced that they had to keep silence under this new regime. That it was really a strong principle. So what does he do? He goes to the Pope. And the Pope rules in favor of Odo, that is Pope John XI, confirms what's going on in Cluny and gives Odo papal protection in the year 931.


At the same time, giving Odo and Cluny there, so Cluny during its first decade of existence, permission to reform other monasteries. That is, one, Cluny's abbot, namely Odo and his successors, could interfere in any monastery anywhere if they were asked to do so. Any monk who's in a house that isn't in a reform movement and runs away to a Cluny house can stay there until their old house becomes a reform house. Then they have to go back. The abbot of Cluny has permission from the Pope from here on in, from 931 on,


to interfere in all French monasteries. So, in effect, all the monasteries in France are put under the protection of Cluny. This is the Pope who's doing this. And the abbot of Cluny could impose upon other monasteries, especially in France, anything they are doing at Cluny that he feels they should be doing. In other words, Pope John XI is in favor of this Cluniac, what becomes the Cluniac Reform. So Odo had this commission, and he began a period in a very short number of years of intense activity of this sort, running around, visitating, monasteries joined up, reforming monasteries, sending out monks from Cluny to do that work, one here, two there,


and they became the ones in charge of these monasteries. Many in France right now. Many in France. Because we're just in the first decade right now. The first monastery put under his, that this happened to, was Romain Bouchier, the one on the top. It's written on there because I haven't run across it before. And here, just as an example, is what happened there. Odo went in there, and from then on, the monks of Romain Bouchier have to observe all the customs of Cluny. Odo is their abbot. So the abbot of Cluny is also the abbot of Romain Bouchier. The monks of Romain Bouchier become one with Cluny. So they're considered Cluniac monks, and they have to obey Cluny. Neither house,


neither Cluny nor Romain Bouchier could elect the abbot without both of them being there in an election. Now this is the beginning. This is the first house. That's going to change later on. Anything that the monks of Romain Bouchier wanted to do, they have to get permission from Odo. And he could pull monks and send monks back and forth without, you know, it's not like today. Do you want to do this? Would you mind doing this? No. You know, it's a matter of obedience. The financial resources were at the disposal of each monastery. So they shared the common pot money-wise. And there was a complete equality


of the houses regarding what they had, how they lived. So Odo's ideal had in the houses you know, all doing the same thing wearing the same fabric and everything. He started right off with the first one with that and implemented it. You can see already here the roots of what becomes Cluny's centralization. That is, now down the road at its apex, Cluny is going to have 1,184 abbeys. 1,184. They're all under Cluny. They're all under the abbey of Cluny. And what Cluny does and says goes. And the Cluniac reform has this uniformity because it has a whole series


of very capable strong, holy men with centralized power in their hand being enkindled by a reform ideal which until it began, until we get to Raphael, is a very fervent and very authentic reform. What happens on the hill, we'll see. It's just too big for its own britches. Various other monasteries follow the suit like Romem and Che. So, Toul, Sala, Bézard, Saint-Martial, that's another name for the Lange. All join up real quick and the same thing is installed for them. And after a little bit of resistance,


Fleury joins. It becomes a Cluniac house and then really becomes another what you end up with down the line is Cluny is the centralized power but it has a number of houses that are like mother houses in their own right. Even though they're under Cluny and they're towing the line, they become the centralized post for this group of 30 that group of 50 sort of like assistant mother houses type thing. And Fleury is going to become a very important one. Remember Fleury with the English Anglo-Saxon monasticism on the island. They brought in Fleury monks and Oswald was Oswald. Well, that's essentially Cluniac. Although Fleury has been a reformed house a number of times over the centuries.


Do you also remember what Fleury was important for him? Fleury, Soulois Oswald Yeah. Go back a little further. Why did Fleury become important? Why did it make a splash? The bones of Benedict were taken there. Yeah. Yeah. During the times of destruction they took the body of Benedict where Fleury became real important because of that. Okay. Once Fleury joined they really got a big boost and a whole bunch of monasteries that looked to Fleury joined with Cluny because of that. And then it spread to Italy. Farfa joined Monte Cassino joined and others


those were the biggies. And in the end as I say it encompassed 1,184 abbeys. The reform covered basically France England Italy Spain and Germany. What we know as Germany. Okay. One other strength that Cluny had and I should point out this point and that helped these people be as capable as they were and powerful as they were was that in Cluny they started the practice of co-adjutor abbots that is before Odo died he named his successor and he like they ruled together towards the end


of Odo's life. Odo died Amard started up while Amard is abbot Majolus or Majol becomes co-adjutor and away they go. And so they're ready to take over and keep the reform going. Okay. And that the co-adjutor with the right of succession was one of the main strengths of Cluny. Okay his Odo's successor Amard you notice he's only six years rules for six years basically well closer to seven years actually just because of where the months are he died not really because of poor health but he was the successor and he was the great economic abbot they had and so while Odo got the whole spiritual organization set up


the reform spiritually started Amard in just six years got it set up so that it could become an economic economically feasible and quite wealthy actually and at least he sets up the situation which is going to reap benefits down the line and does become by the time of Hugh extremely wealthy. In the year 948 just before he died Amard wrote the Pope and he said we want a reconfirmation that we're only under you nobody else can because the rulers kept remember they want money and they're used to for centuries now bleeding abbeys dry. They want the money and they want the property and they're challenging


this exemption. Amard goes to the Pope that day and the Pope reconfirms in 948 that yes Cluny is only under the Pope for both hands off everybody hands off and if you lay a hand on the papal army will take you on. Papal army we're going to get down here where Abbot Pontius has his own army well actually Cluny has its own army not Amard's but it has its own brigade. The next and second great Abbot was Majol Majol was 948 almost 50 years there 50 year ran and he was a noble Burgundian from a famous city which will become very famous down the line Avignon and


he was a born diplomat and so whereas Ono is the spiritual father, Amard is the money father, the economic father he's the diplomat, the diplomatic or political mainstay of Cluny and he sets it up politically when he first became a monk he became the librarian and business manager or treasurer at Cluny and then he became Cluny's representative to the Pope and after being a monk for 16 years total, that's counting formation he's brought back from Rome and made co-adjutor and so he's co-adjutor for like 30 years excuse me he's not brought yes, let me get that straight yeah he's brought


back towards the end of Amard and made co-adjutor for Amard somebody down the line is going to be a co-adjutor for a long long time I forget which one this is it this is it Amard lived until 965 so although you say Majolis is the abbot he's really only the abbot from 965 on, but for all practical purposes because Amard was so sick he was the abbot that's it, I knew there was something he established relations with the German imperial court, so with the emperor which allowed the reform to move into Germany this is when it's under Majolis that it moves into Germany, the abbeys of Germany he also


during his tenure made several trips to Rome, well he knows Rome he was the representative for me in Rome for a few years and he established close relations with the biggies in red and white in Rome so Victoria Apostolic See in Rome he's in thick with that group and he basically becomes the PR man because he's a diplomat, because he's a politician he becomes the great PR man, so he he becomes the great propagandist for the Cluniac reform, and because he knows important people, the Cluniac reform just naturally spreads through these people into their lands and into their churches and dioceses, etc he also himself reformed a number of monasteries that are still having trouble in France


even though there's all supposed to be under Cluny there's still a number of them getting trouble and he goes in there and cleans those places a number of them in his own burgundy in his own home area okay it's at this time also that Marmoutier and Leran remember Leran? those little islands near the Riviera of that primitive monasticism that becomes Cluniac now okay a note here William of Volpiano who is also known as William of Dijon was sent from Cluny to the abbey of Saint-Humain Saint-Humain and asked to introduce we're in the Rhineland now


this is in the Rhineland he wanted to introduce the reform there and then he moved on to Dijon back into France and around Dijon started reforming the monasteries there with the Cluniac method the Cluniac reform also some of the big abbeys in Normandy that we've met before come under William of Volpiano or William of Dijon who's doing his Cluniac thing and he becomes one of these assistant hubs for the Cluniac reform but Mont-Saint-Michel we all know Mont-Saint-Michel just from photos the one where the tide comes in


Mont-Saint-Michel Fécon and Jumiege those three all become Cluniac at this point as well as many others hundreds are becoming Cluniac are there any people that are opposed to him taking over other monasteries? oh I'm sure just human nature would say yeah there's always some problems but he had he had some money in his pocket he needed people commissioned and all this stuff didn't get very far but yeah there was opposition although as it moves out into this period now especially with Odo everybody wants to be Cluniac they're great they're great bennies to be Cluniac down the road but this one monastery I've got here Saint-Bénin is in


Dijon and was William's center for reform well that became like an assistant motherhouse with 40 abbeys and 40 monasteries under that doing the Cluniac thing according to William of Valplaine okay Odulo Odulo takes over Odulo is very important for for our history Peter Damian went to went to Cluny and knew Odulo and they wrote letters back and forth he was a friend of Odulo Odulo noticed he's over 50 years reigning now he was another nobleman from Auvergne and another friend of Duke William but Duke William must have lived longer


there was more than one Duke William which could be the case we're talking about the same the same dukedom could have a number of Williams either that or he's ancient he entered Cluny at the age of 30 this is Odulo after being there for two years he's named Kojuder this guy was something I mean if you're there for two years and you're made abbot you've got something going for you notice there's an ST in front of his name Odulo's a tremendous person maybe under him more than any other Cluny attained its greatness as a reform movement he was the one who just


he made Cluny what it became it's under him that we get the golden age the apex of it's still positive tremendous force in the church and really becomes under him the congregation of Cluny the Cluniac congregation and he spread the reform to the areas in the south that still hadn't been done so Spain at this time and it's mainly through the help of abbot Guarino of Cusa C-U-S-A C-U-S-A does this ring a bell? Guarino of Cusa? Nicholas of Cusa? No, not Cusa this is Romuald's buddy this is the abbot who's


who comes back he's the abbot of St. Michael of Cusa he goes to the holy land, he comes back to Venice it's just at the time when Romuald is living with that eccentric hermit out in the woods solitary what's his name? Guarino and Guarino and Marino and Romualdo all are called to the Doge's palace, and this is when the Doge confesses the sin of basically being in charge of or being involved in the assassination of his predecessor he becomes the Doge he joins Romuald, they all go to Guarino's place in Cusa and are there for five years it's all intertwined but anyway, this Guarino is a powerful monastic force


in the church, and he is hand in hand with Romuald in what becomes the Romualdian reform while Guarino here is helping Romuald also from Cusa, to get into Spain. Cusa this is where Romuald spends time for three years or five years in Cusa, until his father he needs to run back to see his father Cusa is is the border between Spain and France so it's in the Pyrenees there, in southern France right there on the border okay, back to Odolo two just parenthetically here two people that really helped Odo along the way and helped


Cluny at this time really attain its golden age are Richard of St. Vann and Polpo of Stablo these are going to be two more central figures in being other hubs of the Cluniac reform Richard of St. Vann went to Cluny from his abbey of St. Vann and he wanted to stay at Cluny but Odolo wouldn't let him stay at Cluny, he said you go back to your monastery, you bring them the reform, make it real there and take it go with it so Richard was professed in the year 1004, this is before he was a monk he hadn't professed yet, as a young monk he ran to Cluny from his abbey he went back he professed in the year 1004


and was immediately elected abbot he beats Odolo was there for two years his friend Richard of St. Vann was there for less than a year the abbey of St. Vann St. Vann, yeah um under his rule St. Vann lifted the Cluny reform and became again another one of these hubs and he what happened to be a confidant of emperor Henry II Richard of St. Vann again connections and because of that connection with the emperor he was able to spread the reform to 20 more monasteries that still hadn't hooked up and he became sort of like a sub-motherhouse for those 20 also


a number of bishops were drawn to what Richard of St. Vann was doing and actively supported you wouldn't think bishops would support it at this time because here's this Cluny and every monastery that's joining is no longer under anybody except the Holy See and they're losing all this power but he was doing such wonderful things that even the bishops were supporting and having their monasteries join up Pope Paul of St. Vann was a pupil of Richard's so he was a student of Richard of St. Vann the emperor the emperor so Henry II gave Pope Paul the monastery of


Stavro for that reform movement to oversee it and again like Richard and like William of Olpiano of Dijon it became a hub of a whole group of monasteries again in the Cluniac reform he never founded a congregation as such I mean sometimes you'll hear like the St. Vann congregation really what it is is just a subset of the Cluniac movement, Cluniac congregation this one he always kept, Pope Paul always kept it a loose federation but the reform was real so he helped as much as the others in this reform under Hugh then who takes over in 1049 so as we're into the second century


of Cluniac we we see the roots of the downfall of Cluniac under Hugh who was known as throughout the church as the second pope or the black pope now later on down in the 20th century the head of the Jesuit order is going to be called the black pope and is still today in ecclesiastical circles, that's a joke back here it wasn't a joke he really was as powerful as the pope in fact probably more powerful than the pope by the time Hugh is out he's the great ecclesiastical and political activist so he follows on the heels of the monogals as far as Majolis was the great PR man


and diplomat, here's the politician here's the machiavelli of the Cluniac movement where are we in the church? Pope Leo IX becomes pope the same year Hugh becomes abbot of Cluniac Hugh was probably involved in some of the Gregorian reform that's going on okay so post Peter Damian the great Gregorian reform that takes over, that goes through the church now we're talking about ecclesiastical reform, not so much monastic reform but a co-terminus ecclesiastical reform that graded the church that wonders the church he was also papal legate he was also imperial legate of emperor Henry III he was a mediator


in the imperial how do I put this let's put it this way, the German strife ecclesiastical strife or struggle about lay investiture he was the central figure there, called in as a troubleshooter and often Hugh was being called in and had to travel across Europe and solve the situation, just like Peter Damian did often in the country Italy itself but he did negotiations in England, Spain France, Italy, he was all over the place and he brought reform ideas and the Cluniac influence wherever he went the abbot of Cluny at this time becomes known not only as the Black Pope but as Rex Cluniae the king of Cluny because it is at this


time that Cluny grows in unprecedented wealth and power the abbey church of Cluny, which is destroyed during the French Revolution some of its stones being made being used to build brothels as a sacrilege was the second on them to St. Petersburg for size and opulence Pope Paschal II called Cluny that shining fire which lights the world sorry John it was on pause I'm not going to repeat that food food and clothing there was no manual work anymore by this time the monks weren't doing any work their work was 30 hours in the office


they had so many monks at Cluny that they had to go to this office anyway because at any given office the entire church was filled so there was no way they could fit the whole community, they had to move to 8 hour shifts just to fit everybody in and many of their daughter houses are packed too, there's just incredible numbers of monks at this time the customary of Cluny at this time now is three volumes the consuetudines Cluniacensis the Cluniac customary three volumes of what they eat, what they wear, where they bow well the whole thing about Cluny liturgically is that they keep embellishing embellishing, I mean they have parades and processions and everything


gold all over tapestries and special parades for this banners and all this stuff comes through Cluny why? the splendor of the liturgy the liturgy is a celebration of the cosmos just like the Byzantine the architecture of the Byzantine Basilica is a whole celebration is a celebration architecturally of the cosmos it's like a big mandala with the blue dome with the little stars it's all meant to be that it positions you at the center of the cosmos in the mystery of Christ well that's what they're doing liturgically and it gets on here and here liturgically as well as with work with work you have tenant farmers and hired lay workers doing all the work


and you gotta feed a lot of monks those two things signal the beginning of it's just too heavy for its own good it starts going down it becomes opulent, it's no longer a reformed folks it's not a reformed at all now it starts to become decadent now it takes years for it to become decadent but the point this time under Hughes when it just got so big and so unwieldy it couldn't even be centralized anymore in any effective way um ya ya ya this this this also one note just parenthetically about liturgical emphasis in Cluny is that when you have that much opulence and that many


rules and that much going on liturgically the whole thing becomes external so spiritually during this time Cluny loses out because everybody's just putting in your time card and enjoy the parade and you know and the wonders of the splendor it's all very nice but over the years what happens is that their whole thing becomes externalized and so the internalization that was so powerful back here is lost that's what I mean when I say it's no longer reformed all that's left is this beautiful casing, this shell this is just magnificent but that's all there's nothing inside of it anymore for many people obviously it still has saints and there's still good people involved


but the life itself just generically starts sliding downhill they started at this time just filling up just taking everyone in they didn't even screen their candidates they just took anyone in who wanted to be part of the situation you didn't even have to have any aptitude at all towards the end until they got to the point where the majority of the community were that way were unscreened they just wanted a good life that's when it becomes degenerate when the majority of the monks are only there because it's good food and you get to wear whatever fur-lined cowls and whatnot towards the end of the degeneration one week


and at the worst point one day of novitions is enough basta one day, basta to make profession when they get to that point you know it's more than gone downhill, it's jumped into the pit monastically now, parenthetical word about here-so the monk from Cuny named Ulrich was sent, or visited the Abbey of Here-so and while he was there he left off with Abbot William of Here-so a copy of the three volume customary of Cuny and Here-so which still wasn't in the reform got interested and excited by these three volumes and he sent a number of his monks


to Cuny at this time to see what's going on and they come back it still hasn't got to the point where it's one day it's the power in Europe and they come back and Here-so becomes another hub of reform, just through reading the customary and sending a couple monks there who get excited of a whole other reform that's going to happen around Here-so and it's going to have its large customary called the customary of Here-so so if you run into Here-so and the reason I mention this is because you can't ignore a hundred houses become part of this reform and it's a real reform movement so it's sort of like in parentheses, even though this is happening in Cuny something good happens at Here-so it's still producing good in an indirect way Pontius


Abbot Pontius or Pons Pons means bridge in Latin he's a very highly gifted man, very well educated he's the one who's educated he has not, notice there's no ST in front of his name he was extremely imprudent, very moody and he became very very proud of being the abbot now we're in degeneration it's degenerate now, by the time of Pontius the place is degenerate and we're still going to get a saint down the line but it's still really bad off right now and he was into power and he was getting into all kinds of quarrels with bishops, counts, dukes the pope demanding that he be the abbot of the world in terror he often made bad decisions during his moods his moods were notorious, he was an oncologist


and he lacked really any principles he wasn't stupid, he just wasn't principled he was after power and prestige they had 10 years of this so 1119 by that time the church is upset the pope speaks out the pope censures him and says look you you you better get your program together and would you by the way please be a little more patient with rulers and bishops and whatnot and stop causing so many troubled problems because you're so impatient and Ponce got in a huff Ponce just got in a huff and he took his army and away he went


vowing never to come back to Cluny he was sick and tired of the pope and the church and he headed for Jerusalem with his private army and the pope is not happy about this we'll get back to that in a minute so there's a man named Hugh who takes the name of Hugh the second who's elected actually while this other one's gone but he died rather quickly anyway so it doesn't really Hugh you saw was sort of in brackets I have two minutes and I want to do Peter Venable at the end of the Cluniac we'll get back to Ponce because this comes into this Peter was a wonderful person a very holy saintly man and very capable he ruled for several years during this


time when Ponce was gone so three years maybe three or four years while Ponce was gone and tries to get Cluny back on its feet and he what he does is he does start getting things together a little bit but Ponce hears of it so Ponce gathers his army together and he hires more mercenaries and he gets a bunch of here's an answer to your question Jerry, a bunch of ex-Cluniacs who had left the monastery because they were tired of monastic life or they didn't like the reform that Peter was trying to bring back into the place there's always some and he gathers them into an army and he attacks Cluny, this is the former attacks Cluny while Peter is off on a trip


and he plunders the community and pays off his mercenary soldiers with the possessions of the nice guy Pope Honorius II is not at all pleased with this, what's going on and he sends a legate who calls Ponce to Rome Ponce says no thank you and the Pope says well then you're excommunicated you're excommunicated you're schismatic and you're a public blasphemer and cruel so once that happened for the Pope everyone left Ponce his army left him because he's excommunicated, he's schismatic all the mercenaries left him, all his friends left him because you can't see at this time, if you're excommunicated you can't even have, you can't even


deal with people, they don't speak to you they have nothing to do with you he died in ignominy very very sad case unreconciled to the church proud to the end and so you have the former Abbot of Cuney dying outside the church at which point Peter becomes officially the Abbot because they had this problem, Ponce is still living he was really the Abbot, you had Peter becoming the Abbot and Peter very very good man but he's just coming at the wrong time it's just, everything's going downhill so you have a wonderful saint in a very bad situation and you can't you can't be pulled together anymore and what's happening on the horizon Citeaux the Cistercian reform is now past its roots and it becomes this


immense power and it sweeps across Europe the same way Cuney did it's just going to take over we'll talk about that next Wednesday and Thursday. Tomorrow I want to talk about what goes on in Italy regarding renewal and that is Romuald, Peter Damian and John Walbert Thank you