Monastic History

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Monastic History Class

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today i'd like to finish up that gazillion monasticism up and i think how we'll work it is some
i'll get i'll give you the material i have emphysema racism after that on there will be time will open it up to discussion regarding
the can for this topic this week bajillion been decision or questions or whatever you want to want to say on noticed that next week next week we'll start with palestinian monasticism there is no on
reading for that nor is there are reading for the next topic after that just syrian man i think we could have done a lot of things but i just kind of spaced out ah for those of you who have bibliography who asked for are just some locations on
a palestinian monasticism we have can be very good
sources in the bibliography in english
one is the lives of by cyril savalas on the most of palestine and then there are two others one by the griffiths or griffin and one by hirschfeld you want to look under gmbh in radiography if you're interested in things we had an english on our palestine
gnosticism the one by griffith i think it's a little bit later we carry through so like a century ninth century palace to the notices but i mean no obligation i'm sure you'll and some back onto
hirschfeld i don't do think her showcase the whole span
anyway we have other things but logo the english sources
and just looking ahead for syrian monasticism it's probably the thing we have the monster we really have a a wealth of sources on secondary sources on spiritual or up syria monasticism on maybe sixty seventy
percent of them are in french
maybe it's should the
all the works by sebastian brock in your bibliography
i site for five there on syria monasticism also the to volume for this
ah history of the months in syria that's an english burns
i both lot and or just want
on doesn't have any news over the least one thousand
the i really just doesn't french is the best
we have a volume on the syrian center binds we have a volume of the syrian and so we have a volume of the syrian skylights ones to live the top of pills and
yes mother's stuff and finish it's really quite superb collection hand for secondary we also have a live so far now just not a lot of cistercian publications can like from
simeon i think that are nihilists
eh
we should we certainly have the lives of simeon stylized learn the history of the monks of syria it's just like a companion com to the cyril of says office and then there's the a prayer prayer in the monastic tradition or prayers among the syrian father's which is asked him his cistercian
studies of a series are also need glue scissors to six or seven right there which we have really so if you want to do some good at the secondary research in preparation we get more than enough stuff for you
so our next week you won't have any readings the week after that
hmm we'll see how things go the next thing you're going to read as subsections our selections from augusta
and that will come after siri monasticism okay enough for the advertisement of good the graphic any questions on that but the near future
okay
we began
look he had basel and last time just in general will we and ten minutes
ah one thing to remember about these three great saints all of whom became vicious at one point or another one of them against his will
ah gregory of nyssa is a thousands brother blood brother and recognize and this is his closest friend
all three of them were reversed and rhetoric
so they did there
excuse me they did their studies
in not in greece
athens and that's where a basil met gregory nancy answers students together them
ah
this education serves them well when it came to later on combating
the area of heresy certainly for basil a time for homework eric give us a shirt dissertation heirlooms areas raise the question to see bishops three nineteen questioning according to what teachings were about all its
trinity at the time
i if
a son is naturally posture to father is it not then
easy to postulate that there was a time when the sun word logos did not exist and that the world was created by dog head of the world's not in the sun was not terminal and by extension that was possible than to say that jesus cry
ice was being the perfect got more perfect manning's kid all are sending and that's because the whole brouhaha which last for quite a long talk quite a while i'm like why particularly
historically will seem to be any of them well why so strong and why a lot why couldn't they just extroverted past exact exact just numbers wise whole tribes in these horns
took on heroism and here we have one of the heretical situations where you literally have people slaughtered one although was a barbarian was close closer far is about to thank the mining slurred only year off the or said the yeah
the allowed him to but at last and quite a while many were bauza was key to to the fight against done
berry aneurysm one thing you notice ah you should have much ah regarding was type of monasticism and is that it fits into diocesan life he himself after he became a bishop still remained an abbott and such and he rolled his marks as bishop as well
well and his monks are are on doing apostolic were social basically
and basil is pure satellite purist and he's notorious for their not a notorious for drinks analytical notorious for being an anti aeromedical and i'll read you the quote that has come down to the centuries for which he had some
i know he basically condemned in life on the principle that good anchor i was
cementing himself into itself will rather than godspell
quote
see the lord in the access at his condensation was not content to teach us as doctrine but in order to give us a clear and obvious example of humility in the perfection of his love he washed and dried with a tall with the feet of the disciples but oh hermit who
his feet will you watch
who are you care for it
how will you put yourself in the last place if you live alone with yourself
and this other word that it is pleasing and good for brothers to live together how can this be verified and solitude
a community of brothers is them a stadium in which athletes are exercised a good road towards progress a continual training a constant concern for the commandments of god it's end is the glory of god according to the commander of the world but it also preserves the example
of the sayings of whom the axe tell us book of acts all the believers were gathered together and they had all their possessions and cut that what's this model rebecca acts to and we're going to see this constantly throughout the history of spiritual me
the multitude of the faithful had but one heart and one soul there was no one who kept for himself anything that he possessed but everything was calm unquote
the pro sooner because ah he didn't live all that long did he
fifty years
fifty years came from quite a distinguished family
ah of course he these are all three cents on the capital ocean follows his brother said gregory of nyssa his best friend said greens the answers and
he himself as a be grade ah doctor the church all junior doctors from the church also this is his grandfather st my krajina the elder
this is his father
basil st basil the elder
this is his mama same emilia and and this is his younger sister same are crying out the younger of we had them you have the life of crime that and year which we have an english and library you haven't an inherent bibliography
this peter st peter's the basti this is one of his brothers
later on i mean after hebrew they were bishops and
and monks as well
the media and my krajina became nuns and turned their family estate into a convent
this is one pious man i'm turning very very well known at that time and down to the agents with the sanctity
ah that is not to say that goal and basil did not experience monasticism before he you know began he didn't just go off and live by myself although the three of them when they did first start out together lived together at uneasy
he and nancy sort of communal monastic existence later on of course gregory administers the jewellery
in the past and guava live in the wilds of capita dosa as a
as a rock through seems kind of a on
kind of a curmudgeon also gregory of nyssa
third of bone misanthrope with some ways that i mean that you know he was totally innocent but he had that side to him and was a lot harsher than the other ones much more aesthetic
ah
before they had this experience vassal made a tour
palestine syria and egypt various monastic happenings going on kate remember this is before
the expulsion from northern egypt monastics who are tied to origin etc mrs rate while it's happening we now we're often turkey
and
he met off who who became his spiritual guide your state ios saint eustache use of course they're all saints
you stay at yours and your status became his on-hand spiritual guy for fifteen years
you can
and your stay that's a good to remember that because your state is is really a strong influence on hollow basil develops is type metastasis which is different from it anything that anybody else's story because it's so social group oriented
kidding right into the diocesan flow with artist and women's very active and still is what bazillion monasticism levels been practices seriously houses near universities by toronto in canada that the zillions of there more in canada than the army and
states but they're like houses of various crop professors or dawns
we have doctrines and who teach and they live together like a resident's hall there isn't a lot of closer them in life left in brazilian now if you go to the east i don't know shows that that this is the western experience of what brazilian new monasticism it's kind of you also run
a large parish and seen in canada
just for your information you hear female kinds of sleep after once wrote the scenes of turing's right a basically ninety nine some verjee and the follow somebody the rule of st basil
there it's all very tenuous for all the bazillion groups it sort of like the i'm like all these congregations that have that take look to this rule of augustan as their source of all the and all the well there's sort of augustinian you know
lamp with someone
and bazillion monasticism as lived here and as envision really hasn't come down to modern times the same way
ah
basil had real problems with with solitary life and they did try to their early life was had a lot of solitude in it and he just didn't like it he experienced within himself pride in experience of solitude and he are
he experienced a revulsion for are the types of severe scepticism he saw the desert by the hermits they are leading aesthetical pyramids and dumb
had this whole problem where social orange and how does a audio wash the feet of the disciples if if you're insulted
oh the lifestyle they lived monastic way and also a as he developed a headline exhibition monasteries and formal monastic life
had a very simple rhythm of prayer and souls and
scriptural studies which very important for the brazilian monasticism to study the scriptures and then certain amount of manual labor often in terms of teaching you or running motel ministry basically
or on orphanages and a hospices are hospitals of that day
so the work often was ticking do during a
as well as kind of cases ah it was the rule for the bazillion monastics that they have very simple clothing
and that the food is very simple in the housing is verse is just their simplicity is very important in a bazillion monasticism
oh there were formal instructions of three information in the formation program for the monks and particularly on the interior life so a particular spirituality in theology are all of which looked
to whom as their model end maestro
who does basil look to
for fury or delegate prayer theology senators or well origin origin so origin if you if you read in brasilia literature you know what expectations regarding the monastic life or kind of cases your initiative word
in in parentheses splurge in the background
for for basil the lock is the peelers police
soldier of christ for all this army of the board
and avid is the general
and
the important thing for the soldier to do is just keep on guard
and stand the watch
and to be alert and ready for battle
the holy war concept just like the in islam not too far off future is
in a christian sense very strong basil
the whole life as a holy battler well you know it was in the desert also for the hurry monastics and the dancer and he couldn't help but see their on his travels through the desert
the evidence the general or lieutenant
the lieutenant of god damn
group
and it's over the monks of course
and i'm
yeah that's not all very important
ah
the avid a spiritual father and yet at the same time he is an administrative more of an administrator who visited masses and then we've seen and other experiences thus far well that makes sense if you're running if you're running subsidiary things like a
hospice in the orphanage your school for the young deliver that obviously connected need some administrative skills to marry got it so that makes sense
ah there wasn't any notice should
no formal division before
and the vows or your profession was a perpetual profess just made profession once now is it
ah
it's funding it's kind of are you you once you may profession you couldn't leave
except for
a very good reasons reasons being that you can't live in monastic life
or oriented say as i just can't do this again and you you will read on
relieved of your burden of perfection
or if you are treated unjustly by your conference in kennedy you are allowed to leave the monastic life on no questions asked by the by the superior if you if you mean it justice
at least that's an option for you other than that used to close to stay
on
as they went along with his early brazilian on this time now by this time he's a bishop as well as an apa and starting these houses of communities
as they went long been discovered that they needed to and of course he was an administrator to organize this business
and so the rules as such new quote quotations are developed
no are the longer roles and the shorter rules as it as they've come down in history
ah good basil and his best friend gregory as analysis
ah i had a professor khalid greater the nazi get a cut off the angeles
never found out why couldn't we just like they do not sensitive skin
ah those to set up a set of instructions for how to go about our type of religious community community life in the years three fifty eight fifty nine so twenty years before bassett stone so when i was only thirty years all these are young guys in other bishops
and running basically a church of turkey where of triumphs worries
very important in the church at that time
and these instructions became the basis for the longer role which was actually composed in the three sixties over a period of years the three sixteen the longer rules with a longer rule and later on
ha
later on compose be sure to when i forget why and it was while he was caught up in darcis and work as a bishop of says area and he and he composed a shorter version by expose us the first one is too long
you're on the our rules as we think of ruled that than this rules their sets of instructions that like a series of treatises
it's like his answer in various questions
a target you see that and augusta to
his approach to what rule they have this is a seriously
talks or axes to practical problems
actually they give you one correction and that is of these such the set of instructions they already started that when they were living in uneasy this this before their ambitions and then
cherry through to the longer version when they were bishops
when they you know got around to the actual composition of it
home
yeah
they they had trades as far as manual labor when they you know they tried to be self sufficient as such and yet one wonders how much they could have done if they were also running orphanages and teaching everything else along with it taking care of the needs of the meeting
they had the opposite vigils they did a little off little odd hours of tears sexed known
they didn't have a prayer at the end of work time
at nightfall or sunset and then at midnight were to sort of mirrors almost exactly but not quite what was going on the egyptian desert regarding prayer hours together
ah
there is there's always a tongue in cheek and this you know this shouldn't surprise that anyone why have a bazillion monasticism has become what it is because remember it to be gone by by aristocratic cabbage oceans who are
the highly intellectual and it would seem that already in the first monasteries and capita dosa if you are an aristocrat even though the airlines will speed equal if you were an aristocrat your you didn't do manual labor you to book learn it did intellectual work
and
that's certainly the for to the bazillion
the bazillion what's left of the brazilian orders a roman rite in way
today it's intellectual number of colleges
universities in canada were originally bazillion them
there were bazillion university designing pounds
ah
the poverty for a bazillion monasticism was a little different it was a gradual thing
it was sort of like care in them among the of the jewish group ah eh and members were the seeds me really is where the cool ron community how they inserted i mean they kept everything for a while even though they couldn't touch it
it was handed and like to the bursar and they can to property for london from the first two years or three years ah the that happens in the bazillion framework it's sort of poverty we insert of gradually being dispossessed that is your property is i kept aside
does the administered
so that it can be used for the poor the needs of the poor ah
and also the needs of the monastery and your did your gradual dispossession is watching that happen
yeah they must have gotten not included people that would wouldn't it
the have excluded sir
i don't know if they if they did or they didn't i would think i would have thought how they would have
no they had poor also because the point in this in the secondary sources that i had was that the aristocrats got out of the manual labor while the the poorer folk still kept up the men who made the already beginning so they had to be poor ones that so you didn't have to be an aristocrat you didn't have to have a lot of money
but what you had rather than gotta get rid of that give it to family ah and then come
that which is how wasn't colombian seven policemen you just got everything good gave everything away in their future gave it your family can but they had class system did with citizen already back then or an unspoken
now
our obedience within the brazilian framework inserted while you can just remember this
the soldier and tell them obedience is absolute and immediate
but first we obedience goes to the rules of the monster them to disappear
so lets us safe gardens and the superior can order anything hopkins the spirit of them bazillion setup
on the habits of bazillion houses where we liked it not by the community model put back in the army now by the community but by the other generals so other habits when they like disappear of no monster or one that needed and now
and ah
even though this mentality in certain ways is very army like and or military like the abbot's are basically the brazilian habits were supposed to lead by example more than anything and there was a lot of rough harsh boot camp type living i'm in town
isn't that but the basic framework since and militaristic and their models which mostly and yet it's tempered by on sharing which is very important for for bouncing well shouldn't surprise you if you know this monasticism is was doing
on the social work and work at the cooler
the real hands on spiritual on living
he had or but he the habits of bazillion abbott had like a cow domestic council also from the community for whom he went to advise
and
from whom he got the grievances of the kid so there's no there are also the grievance can it
let's start the the complaint department is that recital we such a the external writings none of the can mean like her domestic council no member precocious and his his symptoms on
they remain the for spiritual reasons this sounds more like ministry to them
so in that sense yeah that's the whole set of as moreover and then the has this administer display from to know
he and basil was familiar with becoming monasteries he didn't like there are two big here's another example from a another person who went there and said a huge so you know we can just right off the numbers we read only becoming thousand
tons of maximums well it could very well be
he thought they were just too big
an unruly
true to to work while this for his so this is more what he won
there's a very strong interest in design monasticism an education air go they had schools can afford
and basil directly links the asceticism of a month the a collide with study

all the monks had the opportunity to have classical stones
and on
the people who came to them for education may movie young
we're we're taught to the classical studies as well as religious stuff
i prep school religious private schools
may somebody
although they were too little pressler me on the preparation not that it's just for the poor folk around now
but they kept the students away from the community the captain community
up in a integrity
you know the body of the community did not make mix and mingle with the with the the students and whatnot other than those who had them as a direct obedience to take care of the kid is still kept its identity was doing all these various things but they weren't all involved in every
so they didn't they didn't are basil didn't want the monastery to be seen as a as a monastic mercy that is all these young girls of we're green you take care of them integrated join us afterwards bring their money with them
you'll learn community is that are there wasn't the idea and it's explicit about
they want that damn erica don't get too close and keep the dead difference between school and monastery on clear
he are
actually basil didn't become a bishop to to who became first was a graduate was thousand advanced dancers who became bishop first
and vase or became a bishop when he was about forty gregory students
they were church leaders much or you're already well known maturely
oh and one basil became bishop of social media here he maintained his the whole avid thing as well kept that on
continue to rule the mass so it becomes a prototype of the mark bishop which were going to see again dr the it is both in the east and west in fact even today many of the bishops and greece for instance orthodox
come from the from the ranks of of monsters down to the twentieth century
why
oddly enough the solomons there's this there's this egyptian excuse me this eastern ah
preference for bishops who are celibate who have lived in aesthetical life who are unattached to have family obligations etc and who has been tested office as adult holding down the community one
or is a bump bishops
in the west and stall few of the cemeteries
but here's here's the basil the good prototype of that the that situation
ah bounce will have profound influence down to these early centuries ah monastic clue that not just through his rules on
however the rules were important but benedict himself uses the shorter the rule benedict new is shorter rule the one that basil when exhibition so the seventies the three seventies ah there was a latin version of the translated by refinance and
remember he's one of those some monastic tour guides
he translated that
huh
home
he translated the the the parts of the or the general gist of the longer rules and the shorter rules and he he put that resume together in latin and called it the little and it a little celica car
and that's the dark and invented it got to know so he had
most of the shorter rules some of the wonderful swap the the up
the great aesthetic on is all the longer rule and all of the shorter rule but the there was no laugh and translation of this the falls and just the resume that put it back in early antiquity and so better than never
a new you the greater has said the country unless he knew greek but we don't know
bazillion monasticism them spread constantinople once it got the constantinople very important city the stargate through the next few pages
it spread and it had the protection of justinian so the late tenth century ad first half of the sixth century are not only was to have the protection of the emperor but it was promoted bazillion monasticism was promoted
by the emperor

gradually than fell through the centuries some of the bazillion ideals and monasticism slipped away
often education they drop their schools they dropped their hospitals care for the poor than that those early ideals of thousands go
and they were involved in church politics and diocesan work and an education but have a higher
bevel on a high level discussion more modern ages
and interestingly enough the contemplative
ah ideal came to before in later centuries and so bizarre monasticism contemplation was important whereas wasn't in the beginning not as we think of can counterpunch

so you read today part of a goodly section of long rules
what what are your reactions to them
for your questions or how does your reading supplement what
or corroborate what i'm saying as far as trump asked me would stand you before class yeah that i wasn't that long recession on laughter which
the forest was laughing and i see as the in the long thousand is after the parade modern out our is necessary you can ever smiling and the terrorists laugh or scream or bye week again
that's okay it's more or less it's more or less out outrage of in our just now the light of like attacked the masses and we're talking about period certainly the sense because if you're dealing with people in a hospital or or ensure lasting something like that you've got enough noise yeah so with empathic
it makes a lot it's a lot of scientific reading is patient really atrophy is of
it's a very different kind of the metrics not like what we just wait and then refine to you as i was great this fellow find out from calmness
i'm sure basil will agree with you mean is it's almost like a more survive
i think the rarely carry the hilarity not the letters old vendor and yet the same time on will symbolize not in the sense that they had been a clothing and buildings and stuff like that because simplicity was very for it prevents but more in the sense of when our bunks let's do something with it that taken
coach
when do you have soon up to raise your hand on these discussion just buffalo what you have supplemented with house rewards make more sense because i was reading a signal offering all these children come from is has to have around a sign that that doesn't sound too pronounced was
one for various reasons and never been the conversation about parish and shouldn't be several monasteries can encourage i was wondering wrong it seemed very
now all seems a positive place understanding of his war the perfect
when i say hospices the hospice's there i was like a motel for travellers and pilgrims much like i'm jerome and were doing
near bethlehem and in various places a lot lots of people were were doing pilgrimage during museums i mean it was it because it took a healthy chunk of your life to do the pilgrimage and people did it for many reasons and this is going to go awry
down into the middle ages where people that you know all those during those years thousands and thousands of pilgrims and on they had these places to go to one where hospital was capita ownership for time where they under barbarian invasion or very much
not right now but as downline now not to the on relatively peaceful
jess say for the here but another son shape and we get before for hundreds
i started by this was actually very funny because it was there these two pictures and certainly cried
education programs
chef crashed by the guy cook is an ochre credit for this think if it's because i was all this my next year the other one has been laughing two hectares records and and that three that always teased about but it was in implemented
moreover the lord appears to have experiences emotions which sse associated with the body but so far as we know he'd never laughed and other contrary you can pronounce those a happy where the last year some as biomarkers news on
certainly don't shake but
i felt it was a kind of a severity
he really knew and no i don't know if that's fair to say but in base heads with your album letter and the thing on women known as equal some intersection on the children and last year
and a lot of in a moment fifties that
i can think it a great school suddenly had an accelerated fourteen hundred years later for now that alive that may the lingers and i'll shoot in yeah in fact to i get mixed up with all kinds of things like jansenism yeah by the end and on the film the nineteen fifties in america is just know religion is right
right on all this baggage it's all mixed together
come the really
the radio there's no room for laughing jesus and that south africa
i thought a section on your kids who like a pretty made him consider a lot of the group like hear from the pastor it was i guess you can wagon and in uniform shape
what section of a john as a scenario is canada else can we make taped and fall it
keep the elders came here the kid and it was be time love with both trigger just given the rod well and and for basil than that line that social work is tight very are integrally with jared jr
charity action in other words whose feet are you washing these poor kids and their christ through what does very much anyone
the didn't last up to the centuries but i mean that was the ideal and beginning

probably
absolute from page in a wedding will
but
abstain from pleasures which they enjoyed need south and of like me it's matters a black and white me it's really good for canada yeah i'd say refinement of
contents he is over all
it's an overall attitude for life matches don't the they
but i also remember that basil basil comes with classical education classical greek education and so sometimes you have to read and between the minds what what greek philosophy is is speaking against
in his approach
or these to remind yourself that or this could very well be because he's reacting against such and such
he didn't san fran's epicureans whatever you want to look out it's going to play into that because is this basic study of greek philosophy was very classical very strong

which also is important if he is going to read and understand origin
why
all these people this the motives is great saints we at this time there are not ignorant of of the philosophy before
zip of the
pagan philosophers of the great philosophers that is standard at that time this is it never worked in recruiting spread that math
what have the no i don't think so
i don't think they went north or northeast
i can't say that for sure but
alexandria is this doing their own to everyone
and it's a lot of in this hellenistic jews for the most part
oh
or how the hellenistic jews and hellenistic jewish christians that isn't that what are some of the community you are an acre of monitor
dr mark
now that i wouldn't know
you one place you might look to for that is to is to look at tum the first volume of a way with to christmas determined look under basil where it relates to gorge
then you might find a record to your employees well yeah it's usually pretty good about our they've ever canada
sounds like you're quoted from harris i just one of the brazilians can do i don't know why they flourished error more than we haven't states to have been i mean there are no way
they weren't i went to grad school i think
dr still do
we have a bazillion was to be see you stop senior small thing of journey is time
we've decided this was too much is he stayed a good resilient you
but i used stop off here between the school down and no rain than a top versatile
and crew is a doctrine we will mature
but i didn't know why board canada i think it just took really been spread or one because they didn't have a lot ever
oh order is up you know and certain wants same thing with women's are august compiler versions are sink them we don't have much in sit with them and sort of national move these guys wants to spread west though
oh am
you know of course they they they come down in the east analyst although you know that the east it's more like bazillion monasticism sort of the general umbrella and you'd just rather than monasticism monastery or not not belonging to a certain congregation thirty
there is some of that but in the eastern different february bottle with our hero thousand is the great maestro the shining light it before the century for the eastern and tears our mentor when we have the seven hundred and let alone
but brazilians at such and that's more of a western zone in order is a brazilian congregation
anything else
we in brazilian

okay we still get eight minutes and look at the now get them out alcohol
or you know i bet i didn't give me the palestinian map fifty that
palestinian monasticism
the last when and go with the or monastic life through the seven hundred five okay ice next time we need them are going to
give you three or four now
we have formed maps that will refer to the next area of monasticism that we're going to be looking at which is in palestine so a lot of that is around the dead sea
ah and between the dead sea and the mediterranean of those ads all over the place but a lot of it around with bethlehem for instance and these are there's been a great monastery stuff in the dosage than large ones
i think of st sop up for instance will rule the future monastery you can read the lives of some of these fathers the the wonderful and last year a in san saba
however that a story about during the bread out for were known for the garbage or was it was a change her part of the window to reveal new other
oh no somebody food their garbage of the window and st sava went down picked up the saw it happen cooked it up space to the fed it to ah
into this wonderful million on the guys area where you get this new when you to the when we for the museum is a beautiful historic you remember that are yeah oh yeah we haven't had had was a great
can't wait for the movie
yeah
but that's right out of fun right out of this paper backing
the lives of the
the lives of a palestinian month or something
by cyril of syphilis we saw him in the bookstore we haven't live in a to two or three copies and look at them before next time
look at the pictures
there might be some maps and then i don't know you but the very colorful lives and we tend to think a palestine because the message maybe a couple of zero zero puck motels and then a one living in a whole year if you're not know they're huge
monasteries on the middle of nowhere
built up many of were destroyed by the but islam later on the picture on the perfect pretty now on it's how very motorbike of course online out of the side is no right or sometimes it's hard to monitor the side of us remains but the ongoing problems going to be the same as it was for her mom
why water is going to be the key punch
so okay work will start really this time we have to a ministry