Unknown year, June talk, Serial 00978

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continuing
we've looked briefly at us
oh let's see we're missing couple of people
chris out on because he would because out
huh
okay
sudan to play with like the cashews the spirit of and if you go there is it sits with all things i guess there's thirty even more tape sent to go through such somewhere else it's beautiful no king
so a sudan so much now we've got the proof and it stirs up all kinds of discussion and debate i think one of the things this is methodology that's interesting and that's classically monastic he says that the beginning i do not seek to understand in order that i may believe but i believe so that i may understand
what is more i believed that unless i do believe i shall not understand this is what people like barack like about and so it's not just go out there and do your scientific tests in know then what the facts are and set your faith assigned to something primitive or something what he's saying is he begin
men's within what sometimes called the circle of fate and from their truth comes and loved sofa p people thought about this is this this is the way it is whatever you're into it presupposes an activate even the rigorous scientific method presupposes faith in consistency and court
respondents between mind and outer reality etc which cannot be proven in any kind of an ultimate sense to convince everyone because we have skeptics etc you might be into american consumerism that's an act of faith that i can be fulfilled by getting a good income and getting this
good products job that can think you might be into of nationalism you might be into anything
check back into the dean of the darkest decatur but it's all an act of faith you know and up to recognize that they he'd say what were what is my favorite why do i believe this but you start from there you start from an act of faith and so it's the priority of faith and in our case it said that god is revealing
through these sources but i this is kind of classic so he writes in the form of a prayer at the very beginning of the personal you teach me to seek you and as i seek you show yourself to me where i cannot seek you unless you show me how i will never find you unless you show yourself to
me so it's presupposing the kind of the priority of god and so the only way we're going to get into union with god it's not just coming up with fancy syllogism in our head but opening ourselves to god praying for this grace praying for illumination etc i confess board with thanksgiving to have made me in your ear
image so that can think of you in love you too so it's basically an act of faith and an act of prayer this up this exercise and as i as such i think it's a model for all of us
and so he begins of with prayer for god to direct him in all this
and first he tries to recollect himself as a monk at the beginning of a meditation come now little man turned aside for a while from your daily employment escape for a moment from the tumult of your thoughts put aside your way to tears that your burdensome some distractions rate free yourself a while for god
and rest a while in him enter the inner chamber of your soul and central shut shut out everything except guy so this is a work that primarily should be taught in the context of spirituality not simply of them read philosophy or anything but he does permit this
space of a rigorous thought so he goes from faith seeking wisdom that is communion with god deeper understanding who god is he travels through knowledge and he grants that it's own space it's own importance and that it's own particular logic etc not in this i
i think it's a model of a devout modern
if we're pondering something we'll just now upon me what to do about our water system we got lots of water but do we want to bring a chlorine system or ultra violet now there you can't just open the bible's you with the bible says to see what seats resources you've got to consult the experts where you can but i snapped the
best way to dredge up its acknowledging that area can its own legitimacy and autonomy and trying to find out what they say
but not that that's the ultimate thing that will give us happiness certainly be is from a context of faith that it's worthwhile during the etc and it's all to be to wisdom that whether the water we drink or whatever were involved in will be growing up so what he's doing is not wisdom and therefore not faith i never go
to think again and or i'm never going to up interest myself in a kind of human disappointments and edwards nor is it acknowledged can save we all have to do is think more clearly or read more books smuggling get up there
that would be gnosticism but it's from fades your knowledge and wisdom and i think yeah just zone
oh yeah i think you spent what he's doing some say is opening up to the modern he's fully medieval that
yeah anyone who's who got a brain on the one hand and an act of faith of the other whether it's in carpentry you know was the i and is simple as woman
have a she'll use her brain in her area she might be the best cook have passed around sure she's not history that's right but she's seen areas of human skill with the best that she can sort out of like necessary
no absolutely not
no nor you everybody i think you might see him in the sensor own a theologian since you've gotta think about your faith etc but everyone has a brain and in everyone's camp you know manual is fairly brilliant with repairing motors kind of thing
now he can't get go to the bible and see what the bible says about to transmission fluids through something you just gotta learn and as people etc
and in that area but it comes out of state and flows into wisdom of week so that's what i'm saying that's the model for everyone
now what you're going to do and that middle area pence with your in chemistry or whether you're new to
you don't carpentry or of archer whenever of painting has its own legitimate autonomy of norms criteria and methods and materials etc
you know ursi you can be doing some rigorous courses they don't substitute for prevailing and wisdom or hopefully away for him to journey into wisdom but up respecting all of the a relative autonomy of that field
located

that's right absolutely
and but even though philosophy if you mean by that understanding how you might be very practical philosophy
so when i feel it's extremely knowledgeable with plants etc
and so he concludes this where he concludes with again a prayer
that which you come so through your wonderful councils or word is what i am asking for that we receive that which you promised to your true that my joy may be filled out of to i asked that i may receive so that my joy me before then there's a lovely prayer were here it's a full anthropology he wants
every part of his human being to be kind of caught up in god
meanwhile in my mind meditate on your truth that my tongue speak of it that my heart love it like my mouth preacher that my soul hunger for it my flesh thirst for it my whole being desire it into i enter into the joy of my lord who is gone one and trying blessing forever amen
so
this is the context and i think here it's a real challenge for us
ah it's some it came to him this famous prove which we only go back to briefly but not spent a lotta time much as i don't think it's for some of my sister my some of this mess but it came in a moment kind of an inspiration for him in the moment of prayer suddenly one night during mountains the grace of god shown in
his heart this is his friend and biographer and the whole matter became clear to his mind a great joy and jubilation film in st louis being so it is a illumination
and this again is that he's very own stadiums for augustan we don't just have our own and of would you say generator and power system in sight we have light inside only insofar as it participates in one bite the one truth who is god so if you know anything of truth to a tweet was for
but she's two buttons neurons that's a participation in the one larger truth that is wisdom so it's all kind of this participatory thing than later dopey this presumption of just kind of human total separateness from self sufficiency kind of thing use my here to get control with my world and
but he's not at all in that
ah so it's a combination of faith and rigorous had work and i compared to challenges us someone like bart likes it because when he says i do not see wealth he claims the god can't be reduced to an idea that's the basic common consequence i may have an eye
he had see that's all there is there's this famous of romantic for the illusion for feuerbach he said all our god language is basically ultimately all just anthropology if i say god is love all i'm saying is that there's a dimension of the human spirit and wants to love wants to receive love
the night blow that to a kind of an infinite degree this is going fry it up god is a father projection anything i say god is truth because he masters a quest for truth and so i looked that into the skies and say that's gone and so which i'm a garden only time that the human person ah
joseph cambell and kind of stuck there were years but he gets very much into the human you know follow your own bliss and get into your own deepest myths and stories and up he'd be pretty sure usually avoids guard language though sometimes we'll talk about the mystery beyond us
winter but it's a a big temptation for contemporaries to think well it's basically ultimately about the divine with the in kind of
no parts says well what about transcendence sentence would about the totally other god and cetera and what and so does is refused to allow any discourse about god to just become a comfortable part of me kind of the better side of me because of god can't just be something with be and be
ah
perfect unconditional love
infinite be thing because i'm not perfect open an infinite be and of god couldn't be that and be just an idea in me or you so much bark likes barges is rigorous protestant theologians is was not usually into proof know that that he feels that this is the ultimate way out
out of a kind of it but he would call a reductionism reducing god to man and so it is interesting in that regard god can't be reduced just to nigeria we have any thoughts comments about the theme is proof of this point this larger context and given 'em
the weeks reflection on it
are you all and sons

kiran i thought you like different

well i get upset thomas's argument is you can't just go from an idea and whatever the ideas proved that there's some reality out there from the idea but again and some says that would be true of any idea in the world except this one idea which is idea of god said so
our god is what god is considered rather esoteric stuff but you've got the essence of the existence and god's essence is his existence in his existence is is there's a final identity there that's good so this is turn he said
but
minnesota up
but no
got it
you know how he can do it was able to pick up well we're just saying let's come up with a working definition leaving aside whether he exists or not like we could come up with a working definition again of leprechauns are your coins
this park gardens or
no his one definition you know is that than which nothing greater can be conceived supreme being that's all i mean by best
last year
i office
oh as with any residence here on that we can read that sign your name
well that's yeah that's so accept that aside scratch the attack button and hear here
right by people who work
right yeah a person one day up all i think you need to grab you on is will you agree with a working definition of god of supreme being that is that than which of that's all like when you agree with leprechauns is what to put not always
can dream it'll be or or or unicorns you know quite horses with that
if you've got a working definition what are we talking about before we asked whether it exists or not that's his thing
so of other aspects
i'm one of his of then he gets into his devotional prayers which are fascinating because this is the merchants of devotion here and it's an early one and it's classical devotion had is it isn't very liturgical it isn't very trinitarian each is praying to st john the baptist of his brain to st paul and john them
goes on and on a praising these particular saints and seeing how they can help him so it's a classic beginning of this emergence of roman catholic devotions is very positive aspects and also its limits
oh he's got some stuff and well jesus in here or no i said that's why it's a prayer to st paul's but there's a section where he said he just turns to jesus
but he addresses him his mother jesus my mother and this comes back to the father is during ever up this was already embezzle but it's seen in jesus not just a bunch of male figure but full dimension of the for kind of humanity that includes a man and woman are father and mother bruh
other and sisters such as kind of with does just a camera and called the other lodgings
and you jesus are you not also a mother are you not the mother who like a hen gathers her chicks under her wings so curious using this classic new testament image that jesus uses it himself to say there's this maternal side to their a touches and this is very touching and it opens up real a posts
abilities and relating to jesus truly lord you are a mother and he takes his image and explores it was the mother gives life and then takes care of life so jesus on the cross those are the birthing pain springing us to newness of life truly lord you are a mother for both a
they in labor and they were brought forth are accepted by you you're the mother of mothers you have died more than they they that made neighbor to bear despite your death that they have been born for if you had not been labour you could not have borne bell if you had not died you would not have brought forth
for longing to bear children into life who tasted of death so we've got who is jesus for we've got all these models and images jesus's position she says his friend just as his spouse jesus as teacher lamb shepherd of all kinds of things one of these is jesus his mother
and it shows somehow sometimes are daring these fathers and medieval writers were if someone would write this today people would raise her eyebrows this sensory weird and creepy but i think it's closer to the full of mystery of jesus and jesus's look at him it's not just as much vigor basis people but he uses that
mother him image of himself and his history of achieve in he says let the little children come unto me any weeks overdue limits set yourself up there is this a tender feminine side to him that out
i think it's a bottle also for devotion
he's got a fair in high devotion of mother of mary and it's up as mother jesus and on some other god the classic of the early church since jesus is human and divine
and mary is the
mother of jesus there is a sense that mary is the mother of god but not in god's divinity but guys who managed to you're moving up to add but it's a very high a mere rheology god created all things mary gave birth to god god made all things made himself of mary
so god the father of all created things and mary is the mother of all created things god is the father of all that is established mary as the mother of all that is re-established up so there's tremendous resources here in someone like him to recover the feminine in catholic spirituality this
is an issue something if you look at him to assume buddhist centres of there's always a woman dances with redundancies but up
catholicism can look fairly macho you've got god and his father yahweh was always a winning battles and then you've got his clear definitive revelation of himself it's as son at his daughter or his child into his son and up then you got the church that can have the male priests etc
and at the edge of enough wrote something like discovering the feminine side of jesus said discovering a mary as mother of all creation and in some mysterious way as mother of god this allows and entering into the feminine
most important event this century do not miss the most important for them
the doctrine of the assumption of mary she says this carries the feminine right up into the godhead
where it was otherwise you just have this much oh god had anything but this
this takes trinity mix it up that's right so it it's not clear this fully orthodox but it's masters
and that this is very urgent stuff for us are just keep the latest issue of tablet was very good catholic magazine and up it's a one that theologian reflecting on the recent document on the vatican on the the lay faithful are urging that up the acknowledgement in theory of the active and responsible pet
residents of women in the church must be realized in practice so we have to give women in the church are much more active place
that if women without is that that women without discrimination should be participants in the process of coming to decisions in the church so this whole thing of how to render the church more of fully human that is more fully androgynous
this
and that also in his fate that's also in and spirituality or as when tremendous resource or and discovering he doesn't go to trinity that there's all kinds of ways discuss with swimming a feminine dimension the holy spirit and a feminine dimension of the first person etc
our questions comments about this

an undergrad
away
absolute good because if you take apart he can't get into unity you're just dealing with them a fragment

absolutely so this is about each one of us you know as some people a huge whenever we dream of a woman or something like that might be a woman out there but it's also that the feminine dimension within and how to reconcile how to bring together innocent and of a fecund inner
does a book by
is it's william johnson who wrote we robert johnson we he says of much of romantic love is this projection outward of the feminine dimension with him because i'm terrified is very macho male culture to acknowledge that there's any feminine dimension with him so i thrust it out on that poor flesh and blood gal over there and she
becomes my beautiful old perfect beatrice and that works for a while and then she's doing the same with her meal dimension ensure on me so i'm the knight in shining armor and ducts totally courageous and up to the world upside down so and then finally she gets note the real me and i get to know whether you're
and then there's this collapse of romanticism and just a either boredom or break a presented so he artists as a psychologist if your personal life is going to work you've got a first work on that feminine dimension within i'm inside the man and the woman etc
so and i think for contemplative attempting celibacy
you're a luminous becomes less constricted and narrow if you're aware that there is def imminent within were called to for marriage or the research which is it as an eternal and this we discover that you know them the literature of the up
lives thinking of the dow and chinese it's also the hindu and buddhist center and it's the up within that the courses are reconciled interior lee and then with the the godhead
another great value is a friendship he has a lovely prayer for friends course this is a menace value in tradition again
gnosticism i was talking to a man who's married etc and at a certain point this this kind of again a romantic fervor of marriage can cool down and know what do you do well a he was just discovering for the first time that possibility of intimate sharing and center and all kinds of different levels with his kids
with friends women friends men friends etc so kind of opens up thing but certainly for celebrates this is a key theme and up crusader adjusted that article of a reviewing throughout out from the earliest fathers in two months later medieval times this whole team of friendship
up so a prayer for friends he says
where'd you showed such love to your enemies who have also enjoyed the same love upon your friends that is jesus isn't a good friendship yet he had friends of john is called the disciple whom jesus loved and then he obviously had some particular bond with people like mary a martha of lazarus he wept over the death
what can i make what returning it i made to my god except to obey his commandments for my heart for this is your command that we love one another
good man could god good lord good friend this is how you dress is christ for me
an electronic race and good god
couldn't have
a
but this is a using another image of jesus as good friend
and this is a very biblical theme know right through the old testament new testament as always these friendships superior and then abraham early on is called gods friend and moses is called gods friend and top crisis i no longer call your strangers but friends etc so this is a key thing
you know lord that i prize this love which you command i hold this love deer and long for this charity in the pool
greek culture friendship is highest value that you can attain to in his life and much of this flows into the fathers and into the medieval
i pray for your mercy upon all mortals yet there are many who my own more dear since your love has impressed them upon my heart with a closer and more intimate love so i decided their love more eagerly i would pray more ardently for these so it's pretty bold he's he's not saying equal love for everyone you say i
love everyone i'm called to let my enemies but i love my friends war and this comes from god it's god was impressed this deeper love up for some than others it's a great mystery
but it's sources christ so there's a will see as we get to airhead
whole theology their spiritual friendship but it gets away from a later kind of fearful feet of avoid all intimacy avoid anything like them
so i pray you good and gracious card for those who love me for your sake and whom i love in you and i prayed more earnestly for those whom you know love me and whom i do most truly love so love them you source above by whose command and gift either love them so some loves a prayer for free
men's to christ jesus christ my dear and gracious lord
ah
love them author and giver of love for your own sake if not for mine make them love you with all their hearts sold their souls and other mind so this is the grace he asks for his friends the grace to love christ are more just kind of me
comments questions
there's one last aspect of and some it's very rich and will think about it a bit over the next the next thursday peter and paul so we will have class then that's a major feast but it's his famous why god became man quarter
deus homo here he does the same kind of thing does with your that is he takes up particular issue can i prove that god exists or can i come up with a some kind of understanding of why god would become mortal why didn't god just pronounce have saved or pardoned why didn't
god com is an archangel
or as a butterfly how can some little doggie or we know that by using the suffering servant or something why did god come as a human being
do you have any a reflection so that
that you should see rows with the topics just to see michael with it
if you feel when you celebrate with me
well trip
could you speak to that recompense for god always be
atlas i'm sorry hours away and well the offer
so
absolutely story
that's right but if the closest thing to us as humans is our humanity than that the most intimate way god could draw here was as a human being and i think this is something unique about any religion that has real incarnation god
hey know you lose distance but must draw a year if if there are some problems calling on the parent can just remain distant begins right there in this most immediate kind of hands-on hill so incarnation god doesn't just have passed down messages kind of telegram message food from on higher work miracles for us or send an archangel
which is kind of crush us with all but comes to us in this fragile
oh
for kierkegaard had a lovely way pretty good he says if imagine that a powerful rich prince falls in love with a poor
peasant girl he doesn't go to were in the full glory of his corpse and to courtiers and all and with gold and things with which is he dresses as a peasant and goes to her that she and the full equality can love him well gotta something or seen in up
in coming to us as suffering servant and ending up that critics now but these are different approaches different geologists we've sketch right here he has rather different one parallel to this but out of the fact of our brokenness and sin why because of our sin a
human incarnation was required and it gets back and see what might seem at first i'm pretty primitive thinking but if you've this system like joseph campbell and look at that huge book vs on sacrifice
when did kim
i said we we first become distinctly human as post to animals and it's an explicitly religious form of human culture remember those very primitive graves where you have the first disposition of oh arrow heads etc do of
but what's happening at that point and that was leaked up also to appeasing the animal gods if we felt guilty about by killing two to just eat and
that's right
anyway of the whole sacrificing his for also
oh
but there is a guilt on our side and one way to satisfy for guilt is to sacrifice of now is that just a masochism is that just primitive as her some sense in which that's true if a husband has gotten drunk and kind of beat up his wife etc then he sobers up the next day if you
just goes on from aaron and so nothing had happened that relationship can't really hear some way he has to acknowledge what has happened and make amends a reps were for his own humanity than for hers
now yes we have i've been unfaithful to god and faithful to one another not lived the fullness of god's covenant there is a shame in there and there is a guild to their and for our own humanity we gotta make amends how can we this is where he starts from this is what any kind of sacrificial
spirituality or presupposes at some level or another and up as joseph campbell will argue it's right at the center of the human experience this feeling of the need to offer a gift make a man make satisfaction
and then he puts the whole price the right at the heart of that now i can see very primitive in medieval but a contemporary theologians are you there's something here to teach us about a fuller awareness of of the darkness within and the need of infinite of satisfaction so without an introduction to it will
i'm back to it in two weeks
five inches
oh
just camp yeah
that's right and we feel kind of an anguish by the by that
and we want to maintain their friendship part of it is fear etc but we realize it it's not as it might ideally be kind of in a paradise situation where the line of lies down the lamb et cetera
you should see a brother david trying to avoid showing anything truly
directly