April 1980 talk, Serial No. 00906

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the couple of models and freud develops regarding
that sort the structure the site various dimensions of the psyche and then we wanted to ask ourselves what would he as a good atheist from his adolescence have to say about the origin of religion then using his tools
his correspondence with this lutheran pastor he acknowledges that all these psychoanalytic tools are neutral tools they're not made to analyze with the chin or no or culture of coming out with
conclusions they're made to help the psychoanalyst healed and or body can the psychotic so just as he is an atheist can use them to analyze and sort of sort of expose religion so the a man of faith can use them to
analyze dimensions of religion and also expose atheism so there's this funding but what does he do with his categories to conclude as he's already done an atheist degree does anyone have any ideas
who's a good a freudian

no one wants to attempt something
from what we went through about
everything we would

yes precisely
and you're here in this is quite a familiar smoke and it's just a father image of father projection
his analysis goes this way it's in one of his up its this is in the future of an illusion and this is nineteen twenty seven when of his early works
so this is what it is sort of the basic experience of the little baby and also the child and the earliest years it's of dependence of absolute fragility independence the baby cannot manufacture produce the food that it needs the warmth the affection such
this all come from without and from these huge figures their mama and daddy who seem to be sort of immense and omnipotent and all powerful and all the way they'd tell me what i should do what i shouldn't they provide all the things i need so
absolute dependence and for this dependents response mommy and daddy
so and life is tough and life is frightening and dangerous and so the middle of night the baby wakes up and frightened frightened cause for daddy etc so what happens as a rather fragile psychic fragile psyche person grows up the world just too much for him
the world is threatening and frightening so he calls out for dad and basically he needs the comfort of dead
for strength for love or support for encouragement and daddy is no longer around and this is you your worn terrifying it's again this is all on in unconsciousness so there's this kind of our infant tile regression and that he didn't cry out daddy does
isn't come so there's this projection of the daddy figure into the heavens so i'll have an omnipotent all present on powerful all loving daddy and then again i feel comforted strengthened and center this so it's basically a projection mechanism of my daddy image
this is it
so we know our father who art in heaven give us this day our daily bread and said point will sit all these points are hard luck is sort of thing
and god our protection got our support god will scuttled punishes us all this is simply a projection of the first experiences of the baby regarding daddy
freud says that the daddy image is ambiguous it's the loving supporting strengthening protecting image on the one hand but it's this huge for you didn't get angry you can give you a slap at cetera so the same time or it inspires love and fear
and he are the basic of religious emotions
rudolf otto is at analysis of the holy says the holy is at the same time tracks and frightens moses wants to go towards the burning bush but he also wants to flee this sort of thing up again for just as a heart just as little baby wants
to go towards daddy was all love but is afraid he might get that that slap again so now this is the first explanation of floyd a religion for it was continually sort of focused in worried about this in universal phenomenon of religion so he kept coming up and with
new theories each will not be a denial of the last but a kind of a development of new on et etc
is this clear this when
ah so you as i say you'll often hear this is a kind of a slogan from from that high school kids etc it's nothing but a father projects and this is a powerful powerful challenge to us a group going to have to work through with a certain nerf intellectual and moral and spiritual honest
but it's one of the most radical challenges to fate that there's been around it's not a historical philosophical or sociological its psychological medicine to saying it's all just a subjective phenomenon it's a neurosis thus for freud
all religion is neurosis because it's a it's an unhealthy response to a problem the person fields frightened feels threatened feels anxious the healthy way to develop this would be to analyze what is the thread what is the problem analyze very rare
ashley what can i do about that etc is an economic problem is if someone doesn't like me have visited the competition in this companies too rough for me what is it that the rational way would be to go down and be very specific about the problem and then analyzed my own resources and work it up
but the neurotic person is all or pray to god i'll make a novena to god and god will get me through sort of the big dad inserted in the sky so this is the first theory
are there any questions
i hope want convinced by fence but would wait till we get through all the theories in certain disgusting and them
not in his later writings he comes up with a mechanism that much more complicated
tied him to the oedipus theory we went through the oedipus theory of a certain age four five or six
i want to kill my father and i feel tremendously attached to my mother
now for it says noctis and not the tremendous guilt feelings it creates of the unconscious level and then especially as a kid works through it and interior rises the father's moral so there he was willing and in his will actually killing in his fantasy at the unconscious level actually killing his father
so he say how do we say i'm pumped through side said warning system change
had resigned
doug not to mention the whole thing with a mother sort of thing which is also rather naughty business so here's this tremendous guilt feeling in me at the unconscious level and in us in a later work which is published up posthumously i think a thirty nine the
europe is dead
moses and monotheism freud starts applying his psychoanalytical categories to whole phenomenon such as the jewish religion and all thing he was jewish backgrounds with fascinating it
and he comes up with this rather astonishing theory the hero of judaism is currently moses who convinces israel to embrace monotheism and leads israel out of egypt so for it comes up with this theory that most as was really an egyptian and he
rather heroically leads each a israel this group of sort of slaves of dumb people out of egypt and makes them into a pupil
he is their father moses our farm
when coffin abraham i've fallen and sick
now as an individual basis so there's a collective sort of unconsciousness money you will since finish the people hate this fun there's always this m bivalent feeling towards father mother of heat love to a certain point they're suing with the kill moses
then they repress this in their collective unconsciousness and project mrs great hero why doesn't he get into the promised land with them because he's killed and for the left along the way our then they exalt him to the skies afterwards with his tremendous skill ceiling
so this is of freud's theory of the old testament and he reconstructs the history of israel to his psychoanalysis and reading the texts text as purposes it must be that moses was egyptian moses in a certain point became very clear father figure for israel a big country he said
country so moses the father of israel and your kills most as forgets this obliterates this memory and sensibility died of old age but couldn't get into the promised by surfing the whole theme of israel israel who kills the prophets sort of the and moses's be
but still there's this whole guilt feel unconsciously in israel and go into it builds up in intensity until towards the first towards the first years
it's a tremendous thing
this guilt feeling in israel at the unconscious level
and it's tremendous so here comes this chew saul of tarsus who deals with his
if you've got this you see israel is julie of petra sign israel killed moses someone has to pay the difference what is the debt for patterson the dentist capital punishment so someone has to pay this debt of capital punishment and this is jesus
so the christian religion for freud is quite as much a creation of paul as jesus this is a period that comes through other exigent sydney
early nineteen hundreds but of its employed in the psychological category so paul creates this the average the jesus to his death is some kind of substitute for israel for this for this
tremendous guilt of israel of killing his father
now each of us as is tremendous of oedipus complex children us each of us wanted to kill our own fuck a who's gonna satisfy once for this so again it's jesus jesus the pascoe lab who was immolated for us who substitutes for us
who pays the price
so this is his second theory of the origin not just a religion in general but specifically of judaism and christianity
so here you can do an analysis of the specifics of the cross in which the sacrificial in the mass etc etc so this is his second theory
and with these two he presumes to say that he has in some sense though he acknowledges the shortcomings of these theories he has accounted for the religious phenomenon
in his earlier work a future of an illusion yes pages we interested to a debate with the believer this is why do you believe and he lets the believer speak and give his whole case and then he gives his response and it's sort of interesting and it's a kind of a little text of atheistic
understandings of how a believer would justify his feet and then atheistic responses to this he says what does the believer normally respond either consciously or also unconsciously every believer is unconsciously challenge with the challenge of not believing and so in defense
the first argument for it says is our ancestors our fathers balloon and this is the whole super ego thing i got to be because daddy mommy will be they sent me the church this sort of you don't remember the faith of our fathers living still in spite of dungeon fire and sword
so i can't possibly not believe because we'd be like spitting on the grave of daddy and mommy with grandfather and grandmother and all the pioneers of this great nation in center etc
i committed to this belief as i committed to my family
so this is the first argument in favor of believing the second argument is if you go back to the sacred texts of our fathers you find all these miracles and wonders and works are effected by god in their history and this proves it was true they weren't just wildly believing it was confirmed in their history by miracles and
vendors and if you read our fathers of the desert it's a constant of sort of thing so naturally we believe
and the third argument is that there's really no org it's beyond reason and throw it a sites to two million i believe because it's absurd it's the level of experience of religious experience it's trans rational so these are three arguments he offers
and then he feels he just goes down to knocks them down our fathers in our ancestors he says with you look at all the things our ancestors believed they believed it
oh mountain of things it now happily in the scientific age we no longer believe that the earth was flat judge fair and goblins are inhabited the forest so that you can cure influenza by putting your potions under the bed and center all these things
it's now why should we claim for this one thing of of of be dead in heaven and when we have happily move beyond all these are their superstitions and myths and and errors etc
certain script i wish i'd brought her future evolution i might extend this is essentially a started the second argument about the wonders and miracles he says obviously if if you look at these texts not that convincing all the great religions have his wonders of muhammad is carried up into heaven
tough that has all these miracles that separates a constant theme of the miracle with of of the wise holy man but
it's that's just does not that convincing to anyone who wants proof and sensor rigorous modern scientific way the third thing about i believe because it's absurd of this portrait dangerously an irrational and because of some experience you can't convince anyone
else because of your experience the scientist specialty i have had an experience so please believe the the validity of my experiment he has to lay down the process he went through the verification process etc and then he tries to convince you on a serious rational level but he's not gonna talk about believing because
it's absurd or or deep but a deep experience is sort of thing so that's his thing so he's got these theories which he things explains the very origins of all of religion and specifically of the jewish and christian then he's got he goes through this kind of them
debate and he thinks he wins that so there he is
so as i say this is had a tremendous influence on modern
modern man woman
it's hard to go through high school either now or college without coming to terms with this sort of challenge in and win-win or the other and it's inside of each of us in some way somewhere we've heard something about father projection of the certain thing
so how to answer this how to respond to this
an attorney comments does anyone want to become the apologised the first fathers were bring apologists against all the attacks against christianity
what would suppose someone quite concretely comes here and is in all of anguish and has been believing but as heard all this doesn't know what to make of it wants to talk it out this can vary much have very well happen
well this framework is psychoanalytical categories

stretching right
tiffany meals
ah on better
march of irrationality is
they of kangaroo
this is a key question and you'll notice here i think he's been doing two things in the these last three arguments i was posing he was just doing the average
rationalistic atheist and argumentation without any reference to psychoanalysis at all
and there as a white mentions these arguments are no more drugs and you know believer comes up with these arguments for fame and so these arguments are that convincing i don't argue for my faith in jesus christ because of my ancestors believing in jesus christ sort of thing of or if i do i know on said
much more profoundly than what's he's doing this sort of thing and the miracles said so there's that page which isn't that convincing
why is very
a sorry folks so for it really shouldn't do that sort of thing you should it leave either speak up using exclusively his analytical categories or he should write his ptsd tracks
this was no case of a specialist trespassing outside of his own field to express opinions and subjects about which he had no authority
this way sir
at some point in their she says you shouldn't be doing nothing
so then the other series of arguments so this series i think we can say are not that convincing these last three arguments no one's going to see i believe because it's absurd where they do they're going to be wants a pretty profoundly in going to something about experience it's more than just subjective
emotionalism and experiences in some way potential to everyone to earth
now the other set of analyses was working through his categories of
this mechanism of projection father projection in central and there he saying
and here he would have to grant he's not proved anything says the thing he's trying to say i'm trying to propose a theory of the origin but if you say you haven't proved it
and why can you say it's because his same mechanism of projection occurs again with the patient and the analyst the patient very often projects the father his old father in each on the analyst
indeed in any therapy this does happen if it's now this does not prove that the analyst doesn't exist misses the point so it's one thing to say there's this mechanism going on it's another to say proves that god does not exist that doesn't prove anything of a sword
just as he might say that mary is a mother projection he says is a young turns it around but i had a loving mother she was protecting and now every day i pray thee o mary or she protects me that there's some kind of referral here this could well be in many people marry or
mother but this doesn't prove that there wasn't historically a mother of jesus of thing
so it's one thing to say that subjectively these mechanisms might be operative in believers and it's quite another thing to say i have thus proving that there is no god which he hasn't at all as is clear day everyone so there is a very basic flaw in this reasoning if he was
wants to assume that he's come up with some sort of rationalistic syllogism to demonstrate that god is dead
what he is implicitly saying is i think in every case i've come up against in religion
the projection has been so strong and total to make me suspect that there's no one up there in the clouds accept this
this father projected from him but he already felt that before he gone into a we had seen that he was an atheist already in his of adolescent years so of course he would not assume there was making up there are other than the projects so it's a kind of a vicious circle but he has no way proven the
the existence or no of god he has suggested we often are image of god is conditioned by our own experience of our father and i think most would now accept this white as a whole months i don't know if this is answering
are you wouldn't be that is your language of phenomenological etc i think this is later he would say through rigorous and living analysis i have accounted for the origin of religion
he wouldn't use the term phenomenological which is a philosophical kevin
ah why
yeah he wrote this god and the unconscious years ago and you was so delighted with if if he wrote the introduction to it which is an interesting essay using your use essays also we are them

but this is the basic point trip

the other point is it freed himself
oh okay i from various quotes first let's go back and get it those three arguments about faith of our fathers and center that has nothing to do with psychoanalysis
the arguments such as the are have nothing to do with the findings of psychoanalysis or indeed with anything else about which for could claim to speak with greater authority than anybody else they saw the rise above the level of the popular tracks of victorian rationalism so far psychoanalysis is concerned the untruth a religion is assumed not proven
so that sets these last three arguments aside
what then where the findings of psychoanalysis about religion most of the future of an illusion is an elaboration of theories already quoted garden short is at bottom and exalted father a fantasy substitute for the actual and never wholly satisfactory carry ah projection to compensate for an infant
arnold sense of helplessness there is little in that apart from a language that is strikingly new jews and christians for thousands of years of chifley some soldiers with my father and mother forsake me the lord taketh the up so whites as we quite knowledge that our basic models of god
god our father and mother but we project beyond god is faithful even when the mother and father are none
our father warned him etc would be as would be meaningless to us had we no knowledge or experience and fathers were known it is neither new are startling that genetically religious relationships grow out of parental relationships my report with god grows out of my knowledge of my own father
there's no problem with this this is just the way were built just as my rapport with everyone else on earth grows out of my primordial rapport with my mother and my father and this doesn't prove that the others don't exist and again throughout my life i might have various father projections another project
action two older brother projections but that doesn't prove it
the dissolve as he says abnormal and roddick oaks grow from acorns but we do not ordinarily think of an oak as a substitute for an acorn and a the we have a fuller mature experience of others that is a development of our primordial experience with father and mother
that does mean that these later experiences are somehow sick and so also our relationship with god is a kind of an oak grown out of our acorn first experience of paternity but that has nothing to do now with we will be true and here is where we can use for it positively
it may well be true as we said this morning that my experience of god is condition negatively by my own experience with my own father so one way to enrich and sort of brought my experience of god is to go into the apathetic gaudi's father but not with all those
limitations of my earthly thought
doesn't get mad aeration isn't her nervous he doesn't get tired noughties so this is a very healthy kind of up monastic a setting to purify our model of god the father being aware that we are certainly conditioned by that primordial experience
positively but also negatively
so that's the basic dialogue with floyd i think what can we come out positively front freud than you can do a whole psychoanalysis of freud this is very fun to turn the books on him and there been all sorts of this be done by once a very qualified
buying cycle analysts of ernest jones auto you sister sister fred was very neurotic indeed but we mentioned the beginning freud father of psychoanalysis and he very much felt this and there's one famous photo of he would all his disciples will turn out to be the great say
going with some after he is the great father and yet we'll see this loving relationship with you was twenty years his younger and it was quite clearly a kind of a father son and then you broke away and it was furious for it to you still living your oedipus complex you want to kill him
a young to this around and so you still have this father projection you think you're my father and you want to hold me down as your little child you don't want me to be so in psychoanalysis you can always doing this you can always
so if he says that all religion is neurosis you know this father projects we can just turn the tables and say all atheism is neurosis is as failing to get beyond the the oedipus complex the killing my father
floyd wants to be the father he's terrified that there might be some of their father around he's terrified that it might be most so he has to get him killed off
that's interesting
yeah this is at it shows of five or six and i unconscious level
what was happening
tolling bell and active phones
now he says that the unconscious this is discussed many accepted in winter you will turn it around and say in some senses true but on a much deeper level
but wanting to go through a new birth spiritually young spiritual guess is everything for it does for it has everything and sort of a sexual or a new spiritual oasis but he says i do get to the point when i want a new rebirth as my own person
and this involved in some sense of moving it's the kind of a jesus sent and nicodemus be must i enter into it
the second time soon so there's a kind of rebirth apart from my father and mother sweeping but
so these are some of the things relative to freud
oh he has very modest phrases with this
miss dialogue with this illusory ministry says this is only a partial theory and i can't pretend this this explains the whole thing and that you can use this against me as much as i use it against you sort of thing so up
and it keeps coming back to religion with is kind of nervous troubled spirit so there is something very interesting happening there what can we learn positively i think to
a be aware of the this immense dimension of the unconsciousness be aware again of the fragility of the human person or the teachers have a earnest compassion for the human person your church a little or less severely
when of our theologians in coen joseph he was a protestant theologian married and said the and he just he had kids this is really quite difficult you have a business scream in the middle of a night and base they're very clever and put mama instead
with daddy against moments are you have these moments of real anger sort of me and you can understand people who sometimes you know you read horror stories bucks mother's killing their children and centers sisters almost come to understand the certainly if you've been through some bad nights with that had babies who won't shut up in center
but we are very fragile psychologically and
i remembered very early years here from listening the cook for them
there was a cook at a certain point just went around the bend and he was extremely kind and x streaming genteel et cetera and one morning and refectory he was just singing to himself and he had gone and now he's very healed and nice in a religious order etc
but just as say we shouldn't be shocked by this were much more fragile than we might imagine and there's all sorts of pressure into inside of as this sort of thing so up i think going through this kind of babylonian fire of fred there is this and there's this awareness
old sort of possibilities of things like guilt complexes and immense area inside each person until the be careful not to explain this
a as in the past sometimes it might have been exploited
miserable sinner sort of thing but also the whole thing about a jesus substituting for my great guilt the angry god wants someone to pay for that someone's been killed but jesus pays the price sort of thing of there is
a morbid approach to christianity there's a morbid approach to catholicism be very careful here
and we want a coffee faith and that so up be very carefully right i came across an old devotional tracked and jesus on the cross and first you meditate on the left wound and all the blood coming out of that and the since for which that his compensation in and the right
but we do not have blood and gore up there is a kind of a
a morbid
and then of masochistic this is another trip to psychoanalytical category that is i find satisfaction and sexual realization true p to my own pain then there's the old a statistic counterpart to that i find a through inflicting pain on others but a
one fourteen said all of religion is simply masochism pets have got to suffer i've got to pay the penalty for all my since i'm a miserable sinner
and nothing will sufficiently pay for the depth and profundity of the horror of my sin so the discipline and all sorts of now there is an authentic way of understanding all this but there's also a sick way so to have the i of discernment we now know about of there
is indeed a neurosis of of masochism
and there's a neurosis of citizen and to have the i that is able to distinguish the authentic sense of oh sin
a m force or compunction sort of thing from a sick of being sort of dominated by a super ego its destructive citizen

you have something songs ah ha
yeah well just basically in us there's this yet you see there's this violence and i'm very angry you know life is rough and i feel frustrated my it would just like to be god's will the i just one income and i not now have to put up with this setback in that setbacks to there's all this violence in
sight of me a nazi isn't just kind of a massive group sadism towards the jews for instance
and there's all sorts of lots of masochism room
ah quin was to die for the country sort of thing enter
the rat race run a rat race swell and sort of
please type
keeping up with the joneses visit there's offs hog quite a bit of a masochism and sadism in again a certain kind of catholic devotion to some if you see the films of fellini he he came up at through catholic colleges and he said he remembers still you see steeply
basically a deeply catholic believer but he still has all these problems he was a little boy and he would walk down these of catholic boys' schools with all these paintings of martyrs and here's st agatha with her eyeballs in a trade
and here's our lady with all his sword sticking out fact of pulled this sort of thing and it's just left of that can be traumatic for some people
and if you read some of the some of the martyrs in the city to see in a breasts cut off and all these things and so on the grill and up there is st i'm lawrence that tied up there and all the arrows in him this sort of thing is that lawrence notice that
because the
is this sort of things anyway there is a kind of a more but thing in religion and out of religion because it's a need it's a sick pardoning on oh
oh cool


ideology if one way of explaining it is trying with one little limited theory to explain everything and at a certain point i'm aware that it's a limited theory and i'm pushing reality and this then i get angry
hitler once to explain that the juice really are responsible for all all the problems of germany and gnosis and true really on the unconscious level of you get all the prejudices your that you know the dirty knickers
or the jews are all this sort of thing
women that there's a saying that the desert fathers and that the women are really the cause of watson the christians problems this is a little ideological and ah
sister benedicta talking about her wisdom random the thing with satan appeared as a woman to him out to his step father the desert tours that blacksmiths we just two points when she records brief things and popped it in her face and she's runaway screen
the of his father was a little neurotic if i understood or s to sort of pretty simple to have authentic woman in the face with the brink but anyways the basic point is
human fragility and we can we can ruin anything we can even ruin religion with sickness and their have kids i'm sick catholics have been sick protestant section sick so you gotta be careful them things like the hari krishna called etc
you want to see that whatever happens is the result of it
as mature three person is possible and not just again some compulsive drive
but the comments questions
so now we can move on
to a much more positive approach to the experience of religion that is carl young and again basic slogan of freud is all indigenous neurosis
and the basic slogan of yom would be all religion is psychic help or atheism is neurosis so you're just turns everything right upside down young is extremely popular now and know certain theological circles or he's very strong at berkeley if you go into the berkeley
at the theological union or if you're going to the bookstore there's an immense section of you also hear you've got up as as eighteen volumes either by you or are new is extremely fascinating
you died in nineteen sixty one so he's very much our contemporary you have lots of his foot structure lots is best for susan
the arc types and the collective unconsciousness is also tough delightful essays in here
basically series of essays and he writes in credit up to clear away
your psychology and religion was fascinated by religion and transformation symbolism in the mass springs it's very interesting essay and it makes you appreciate i think the as and liturgy forward to introduction to send buddhism
the psychology of eastern meditation on the tibetan book of the dead such as an answer to job
i see them trinity a psychological approach to the trinity so a fascinating per per snap
here we get from very much into a serene dialogue and he's always wanted this dialogue and said he was very much against the modern atheism and he says as kills the human person's psyche killed so we've got to band together we psychotherapists and theologians and spiritual people and work today
either to in favor of the for human person
ah his father lost the faith and he as a young man or an eighty seven five try to help his father we find the fee eight of his relatives were ministers in the lutheran religion
he studied medicine is a doctor universal pass or then he encountered freud and nineteen o seven it was incredibly brilliant and counter and they just talk for hours they just work when together can like father and son for a twenty years his elder and
for seven years he was fully dedicated to the psychoanalytic most movement of freud and indeed for four years he was the president of the international psychoanalytic commission so he was considered by floyd is for it's great successor for it was preparing for his passing on he wanted his and it should have
been young the you started having problems with for spirit and he started babbling in here and there there will see some of the point sweet difference from in a certain point there was a very very violent brink and with mutual accusations and bitterness and a mutual
psychoanalyzing this sort of weeks and really got quite bitter so
but he's very much on our side but there's another way of reading him
some say no he's not on our site it's even more dangerous and freud he said clinton's secret to stick thinker and he reduces everything to the subjective and certainly he's got some theories that are not very orthodox at all so we have to be a little careful here we'll see this towards the end of
sunday can ask whether you believed at all when they use just
the cycle therapy games etc but of people who know him personally he was a profound believer he is a little synchronicities interested in tibetan buddhism catholicism tough
zen buddhism meant at the whole thing
are you people tired should we take a break or move on
are you sort of
shall we move rapidly into use some first categories of you that are interested
ah now for instance he came up with a basic distinction extrovert introvert you've heard this for instance someone's an extrovert someone's an introvert euphrates
now this is his basic he says you encounter people i knew sort of into it if they fall into two basic types there's a more the look there's a less there's also a bit of both in each of us but there's really someone who's quite clearly extrovert and quite clearly introvert
the extrovert he gives a very technical definition of these we probably have a vague but just remember this oldest rubido psychic energy us now it's gotta go somewhere for an extrovert in fundamentally goes out outside to the objective world and it's finds its fulfillment there i love
the parties i love meeting people the extrovert is the type the interesting to a crowded room it's as great and he starts going around here
our dani know chins of guido if you read that now he was subbed use fairly extrovert he loves people he loves talking and things ah introvert he's got all this same psychic energy he drew
six it inward to inward problems inward profundity is inward dips so if he comes in there's lots of people whose for intimidating just goes out and he goes off to his room and opens a book or or meditates or something
so you have these two types out or directed you can see an inner during
ah and again every person is both types there's a little of each in both of us
when twins are two types here
ah john bruno was not here he has the delightful theory that all our debate and theology of the difference of the hermitage and the synovial
and as mystical fathers nor the rest of the it's just basically a difference of introverts tend to gravitate towards the hermitage an extrovert towards the monastery that set and as far as supernatural grace or divine illuminations and it's basically an extrovert senators which is an interesting theory
ah i think so teresa once said she wanted also extroverts in her car mills that is if you can just exclusively introverts can be a little dangerous
all indeed also don pedro
walden yeah
jasper has also taught the wheat sheaf let's a might come here are is is very much he's lived all his life in the monster i think it's great clearly an introvert you'll see it up so you get these but generally the idea of solid to the sill
wow silence etc these are things that an introvert would naturally plug him to again just i'm quite a natural level
up in the world that introverts tend to become a librarian's pedal interprets are lebron's but it can
this is a classical and way that the introvert find some place new work an extra words can be disc jockey serve and for hostesses
this can be very helpful in counseling people
i remember that the early years here are very limited but there was this one person was quite clearly extrovert he had this thing about getting into inclusion he had to it was very cruel with this appears that so they finally let him go in and he lasted about a week and then came out and without all the way but it is
is particularly difficult for an extrovert clearly to be yeah
use of it can happen without sorts of creases but it's it would certainly be more difficult at the natural level than then he goes into another interesting distinction of for tightest
intuition know sensational thinking feeling
then your pipe he says all horrible apartments are in all of us also and all of us have an intuition dimension in a sensation dimension it but there's a more or less some people are particularly
one or the up for instance they're thinking is the rationalistic let's analyze this let's be logical
it's typically menstrual push to a problem there's some problem it's but measure out the the options etc my brother is extremely he was a math major for instance this sort of thing you have to take a your inventory of everything in his cabin
so we ended up major things and series at one share ten inches by fifteen by
just as this approach you know if you can only get it down into numbers you've got a hold of it sort of thing the feminine is the feeling now this is not what we sometimes mean by this is
a joke says related to values i feel he's a very fine person
oh she's charming isn't she a whisk can you get to women together and how they normally talk often it gets into wasn't see more serene to me they start yes and then is why isn't i liked her dress in the serpent just as on my feeling feeling presidency
and it can try it in bad crusade want to talk about business sit there is so but you have men who true that other surfing but there are two approaches one has to do it interpersonal values i think so and so is a little gloomy these gays etc and the others
might not even notice that interpersonal it's just logical rational you've got a problem we've got solve it
there's a job to be done go to and sort of thing and i'm not worried about your search
the sensational sensation is dealing with reality especially on the experience you'll feeling touching you get this type of football players or run people just you know i like a can of beer and they like to watch the tv set and this sort of thing
and they're not too worried about hired things or they're just basic people and then they can be very good people that they want a good thick steak and they want
that sort of her presumably there's not that many around that new primarily because of but in the city you find this sort of person that they just you or me well
but the medical team tonight with institutional they might be good this is more unjust the basic level
that's more the this this is also a hundred and beauty but i'm a deeper level with has beethoven i think it's clearly an intuitive where you are in contact with the color harmonies of life and deeper this guy just wants a good beef steak correct you can of coors sort
thing and give us lots of people like this in the world and someplace like this is a little particular because they're probably not that many around but done good solid
yeah steelworkers type image
where are your who says the sensation deals with external reality by the senses simple matter of fact elementary intuition or perceives the unconscious levels use the man of vision sees the poet
but don or blank or we sort of it and also the contemplative of on the natural of a were always and the natural level that the person who at that sunset will just
go at berkeley there's this young franciscan and just goes out in the day in communes with the birds in the sunsets said it's own intuition or poetry sort of me and then you get into the combinations i can beethoven was clearly a introvert into
you take the rough time dealing with people will go off in his room and plug into steeper intuitions of beauty and harmony etc
kissinger i think is clearly an extrovert finger he loves people and he solves things logically
and so on mrs carter for instance she went off to camp the issues profoundly moved by of by the sick etc i think she's an extrovert feeling so you can go all the way of football players probably an extrovert sensational so you get into these various
combinations and it's interesting and it's useful for council
but you probably dumped again put an extrovert sensation was a in a hermitage surfing
ah sort of them
oh this is very difficult in a strict see this is all plugged into interpersonal and in serve degenerates against him given the gossip and sort of been up but the feeling person can be very important in some opium
an introvert
of intuition will
you can have some around with the whole some opium is that it's not really a similar sort of thing so you have these different categories and
now much of psychic healing for him for young
is to activate all of these in all of us we'd sometimes are completely plucked out to our sensation side just not even aware of our body sort of thing so that can be good therapy or get back in contact with feeling took some people are to know calculating
and so someone who asked to handle people that he can rediscover his feeling dimension mrs very important or somewhat we just all sentimental and silver the problems of others etc she has to plug into her or here
of the thinking damage this sort of me so you want to get your act together
a much of human psychoanalysis as a surgery secret synthesis will be to read integrate these components into harming that's the basic approach
now we've got when
we will be going to abandon the later of we have rarely ever kind of a month over there are mandela is a symbol that represents various components maybe of the universe or maybe of my inner psychic life and i tried to reintegrate them into some sort of hold some sort of harmony
if i put a circle around their say should i will discover that is trish moral dimension he the say that i want to give them a kind of organic unity but i to ever higher i want to put first place to traditional
now what happens if this would be for be a mandela that meditating on was reflecting on this deep within this of healing process is to some extent begin this is about the a christian mantle that i sort of like but we'll see this later you'll despair
very big on was the expressed visually what he wants to do in his psychotherapy that is give us a center give us a focus and also a circumference so we're not going in all directions the chaotic person is the person who just has no circumference
it has more center
central off balance certificates and people so once you can get on your own mandela
but then when you're on your way
have remarkable
do you have any take on the image itself is young you can this is a this is the mandolin comes from tibetan buddhism and it's a meditation technique will see some mandalas is a sort of products have been here for are so you meditate your mind of us
and then it was discovered in the west and especially through young
and rediscovered etc and are so jolly mix of great the the cross is a basic mandarin we don't think of it but
we're getting ahead of ourselves he himself and notes how the cross as a month or if it's a four corners of the universe up down east-west centered
then you get into work comp complicated crosses were more clearly of them as you could put a circle around or the celtic cross and sort of thing now if you meditate this or whole thing of meditating the cross is to get our interact together so to speak
should be torn apart get center to give not christ sort of thing and meditate the interior cross
so it's much of he had not seen
what rights are way
just get on fire
the it
all very much ah there's a whole series of on paintings his patients did
and he analyzes their psychic progress as they are able to come more and more to terms with their inner psychic life through a more and more harmonious mandela
so this is one person who's keeps working at it ever comes up with very very beautiful harmonious month of us
the beautiful section here and oriental employers that he certainly
ah model is apparently to take her
now i think you're from this is important and weaknesses of a bit and up now there's four elements of the cosmos of tibet mythology here and it's also the inner cosmos there seems to correspond here
come there's the basic triad that's already in st paul and then it's in the eastern fathers and william of some theory picks it up the anima animus and portable sleep a spirit soul and body get into that
but i liked this model of for instance it's trinitarian clearly and it as the cross and etc dinner but you can do this can be this can express the objective salvation mystery of trinity and cries and it can also expressed differently components of my bike i have my spirit my suit
my mind my bottom of william of security as a lovely thing about getting these three components into harmony and the body under the mind and the mind and spirit and spirit in your garden center on christ st bonaventure as a whole thing about the cross symbolism and
the whole cosmos to across in each person's closet center but here you can have their for components or dimension search you can have your more transcendent a new more horizontal even to all sorts of sweetness and meditate on christ regard being your circuit
rinse and your center to center and ninety percent expressed so i it's a
it's one way to get beyond the merely verbal or merely rational ideas into a deeper intuition and can nourish prayer
well we good other comments
we might pick up young and his model of the psyche of next time they remember freud's where you modifies is quite quite a bit and all sorts of fascinating additions and opening the way to a much more affirmative
thing on a religion faith etc