February 1980 talk, Serial No. 00904

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in about a
these three elements in our do but the monk the religious dimensions of humanity and the context of the modern world and it started to play a little with what is the relation of these three seem that the monk is some are a special sign of and witness to and the expression of
the religious dimension of all of humanity and that the monk who lives today is perhaps called to work through the challenges of today also as when we have been more images more monk
then we started reflecting what do we mean by religion the religious dimensions of humanity we'd seen some quite negative approaches and people like the early part at least religion is the moment of man's of obstinacy against god religion see them a very particular way
of bonhoeffer's that are we've moved out of a religious
h series of ages and ancient and medieval we'd come into a religion message so we must rethink our gospel and our faith in non religious terms and then seen some answers to these challenges in some ways of understanding of dental little with what st thomas' about religion
one and
rauner carrying on the attempt to do a kind of watch a contemporary tommy some in reflecting upon this openness of every human being to the transcendent this would be the what we would mean here by the religious dimension and as man sort of ratifies and confirms this openness with his own acts
in his own prayer and practices etc this would be a religious virtue that sir thomas's talking about sir thomas also talks about this intrinsic attention towards god in humanity indeed an all creation says he has as
amazing position of the natural desire to see god that it is a man and women and the a natural tendency towards god of all creatures simply because they are creatures
in desiring its own perfections and thomas' and assume a theologica in desiring its own perfection everything desires god himself since as we have noted the perfections of all things somehow image the divine existence and perfection
so all things have this tendency to realize themselves and this in human person becomes conscious becomes knowing becomes willing and my own perfection is realized in knowledge of love of vision of god and so within me in so far as i'm a human being there is
as thrust upward to god so any human being has this this is the basic of thomas optimism and your thomas and i think it's in augusta and also you know that famous phrase or god who made us for yourself and we are restless until we rest in you this is built into
ooh us into are very fabric into a very
sort of nerves zoomed in but bones and things so there's there's this inner thrust quite apart from the whole question of supernatural grace etc that gets very complicated christians but right also am a natural level in so far as we're just human beings before the questions of faith such there is this tendons
easy and this is
religion and other questions about this
so we might go into some work now in his son series of conversations going to be talking about the religious dimension their what do we mean i'd worked out a little you've gotta have a definition if you can be thomas so what i mean is everything in human life having directly to do with
human persons relationships with the divine so everything in human life not just called not just formerly religious practices but as a the better of james says visiting the orphans in the this can be religious if the intention is to
directly express one's relationship with the divine we say directly here because indirectly we believe in fate that everything has to do with our relationship with the divine but we're talking about this intrinsic openness to the absolute to the transcendent and at certain points the human person once
more directly to give this expression to give this a circular concretization and outward does body with cetera and this is the religious moment
so we might just glance a little in love the council documents that have quite a bit to say about non-christian religions about this religious dimension and humanity one could call all sorts of texts but for instance in the document on the church
paragraph sixteen on the council fathers are proposing the pieces that we are only seen in christ he is the one savior
now what does this mean that all these other people are damned
ah then they start reflecting on this nor has got himself far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown god for it is he who gives to all men life and breath and every other gift and here's the side dish from acts of
nineteen the sermon of paul the areopagus we saw yesterday and who has save your wills that all men be saved first timothy two for this is decisive god wills it is the salvation of all me and not just roman catholics were baptised crisp on him now he is willed that only to christ
arm seed but he will to salvation of all so does that mean that is universal will of salvation is absolutely frustrated sense we christians are such a small minority
so they go on those also can attain to everlasting salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the gospel of christ or his church yet sincerely cigar and moved by his grace strive by their deeds to do his will as it is known to them to the dictates of conscience
here's the whole christian catholic position of an implicit desire for baptism an implicit desire to enter into the church not a conscious desire but implicitly there because a person's loyal to his own conscience to his own lights so if you've got un hindu who very sincerely
lee once to respond to his duty remember the religion as to do with duty you have to the transcendent and thus a descent into the ganges etc that person is in christ seed and this them his expression of religious dimension its fulfilled him in christian
nor does divine providence denied they helped necessary for salvation to those who without blame on their part have not yet arrived and explicit knowledge of god
we're talking here about even those people who might consider themselves atheists or agnostics
not denied member those what is eight hundred million chinese for instance what are we going to do with them there's only five hundred million roman catholics in the whole world and there's eight hundred million chinese great majority of ember
not that explicitly christian medicine what are we gonna do with it well here we're seeing not even they can we assure with confidence
whatever goodness or truth is found among them is looked upon by the church as a preparation for the gospel she regards such qualities is given by him who enlightens all men so they may have eternal life
then no one could read all sorts of things from various expect then there's a whole declaration on the relationship of the church to non-christian religions when could go through it all acumen is something we've done a little bat remember that they are also were baptized members of christ's body they are authentically christian we share many things it's
petra now we widen on that will be circle you know the general talked about other circles so the center is christ and the person circle a roman catholic church which we believe in as the firm's but of the truth the sovereignty two pictures cinderella
the none roman catholic churches various the sheer races also tied into christ no mysteries way ensuring seven aspects so the roman catholic and we saw in the document also we might see the be extra things we don't emphasize credits which we might ticket
then you'd go for the christian to the non-christian religions hinduism buddhism etc in a final circle is all men and women crypto
and implicitly
lol been a women who are not of goodwill were praying for their conversions for potentially see these are the various circles were interested in so we don't want it to close ourselves up and hears
and i think the monk also doesn't want to push himself up in there and so this gives a a wider horizon to our complicity with simply means universality questions
talk about that

but new elderly or if california
i was trying to exploit mother
reading defiance
let me his speech for all it's gotta get to know
well as i understand it the whole thing is very disgusted is very profound etc
but the basic gnostic ten
proposal is that to some secret esoteric knowledge we can be saved
and i'm going to share it with some of you i'm a master i know a illumined one and i because i got this knowledge and it's this knowledge that saves so that i shared with some of you and then through this knowledge you also are saved now the christian react
majority and scriptures is there's one savior jesus christ and he saves not only to the gnostic ugly illumined but the more simple the person getting to read the person who's nor the peasant cetera
for me one of the real a dangerous of gnosticism is a certain elitism the other dangers the old pharisee a thing we save ourselves through something we've got a hold of would it be argued that just works or whether weepy some
system i got in my head surfing and it's very diffuse today
it broke with the up these free papers every week to have lists of school similar and you can get into any sort of school about enlightenment through massage and likely to at acupuncture and through all sorts of hypnotism it's everywhere you know
there's some if i could only get my hand on that book that has these secret knowledge and salvific then then i mean christianity says it's not there it's a living person
of christ were saved us into the cross and resurrection then you get into a father's some of the support and we have a true we have the true wisdom this is our polemic against them who is jesus christ the living god not some sort of thing written down so
but that that's the polemical side the more i read it ecumenical side would be of they also are seeking like crazy they also very well might be found their own conscience so we don't want to another and say you're certain you're certainly damned et cetera
and you're certainly cut off we want a debate with them to get them out of sort of
a self self saving trip iran
the the catholic position sort of cushions very dialectical it always has to insist on the uniqueness of salvation only through christ
so this is eunice city to what we're saying but on the other hand it doesn't want to say there for all the restaurant it doesn't want to get there for narrow and closed and and and bigoted didn't die
but it wasn't even to a catholic to the universal once because as will see now christ are so is present to the gnostic into the hindu and to all these people that saturday
really understand
that's a rough one
good time

st john
yes now here again
did this is the new one new aspect of where were in in the modern age seven call it the post christian age you don't just have to go to china the whole of europe in the whole of america is filled with people who have been to church and it a certain point say no and of bot know whether feature they walk our et cetera
now society as such a going to a very pessimistic reading is post-christian it's decided no longer be explicitly christian like a kind of explicit catholic culture that was around in the middle ages etc so what do we do about this
yeah the were refused him because they didn't word

yeah think that said of it's a real mystery when people really hear the word i remember distance this sub women of angeles to got on the bus once i wanted these protestant fundamentalists and she just started by memory reciting things from scripture and
she sat down in a loud voice saying and etc etc long texts from moments he said people were just sort of used now you could say she was announcing the word of god and people were not converting this was sort of her position mississippi i'm giving it and you see it all sorts and the eastern cities they got the parks and they just stand there and he's
start reciting with a fairly while look at their like people combine this with to go
so we believe it's not the mechanical repetition
of the word of god it might not even be the mechanical repetition of the roman catholic catechism for instance ah
so don't
right and then this is i think with them in or monastic they might very welcome in you know there's there's proclaiming had not just by going down in a park are getting on the best presumably and shouting it out but there's proclaiming it in silence and contemplation said to with that sort of one's whole existence trying to
get involved to death and resurrection things

i'm up


well in

some problems
cities to give our what was so then it's cheaper in check
the numbers
i'll say

there is this and if it goes along again with it we stories on the objective truth centered and christ have expressed in the church and therein the scripture in a way that it's not in other books etc so in system is objectivity
and it has been proclaimed and both societies have said no in an objective way and we judge this until later in the debate in polemics will up the other positions but then there's the whole business of subjective killed or not guilt and that's just a mystery the church is very very cautious
there on judging and condemning anyone we're not feel the should say were not killed
by faith to believe and even one person is in hell were held to believe that there is a hill that is simply the possibility in human freedom of giving a definitive know to god
human kindness is not just kind of the public's so there is this possibility god hasn't automatically programmed us to to say yes to him but one could conceivably say a definitive no to god but it's the some have were not obliged by faith to believe certainly do decision help we're not
obliged to believe that it's possible that the last moment when he was dangling theory converted sort of thing so it's a great mystery and so even less trying to point the finger at dispersing back senior certainly your certain damn certainty
i started a roman catholic who does catechetical work is a seminary he went into one group of young teens have to get old they were and just wanted to see where they were at what they've learned from their a catechism message that whereas the one thing that god desires most
said suffering
so and what's the second thing that god desires most after suffering
said to be neat and tidy
so these were the two basic insights into the will of god that this little kid had now things can happen later and that little kids life regarding this referral god will see later something's that freud has to say about the sort of image of god
now are the priests will be able to see if that kid finally does a certain point doesn't show up this is a basic sort of sociological phenomenon absolutely predictable in italy for instance little boys little girl for be there a church the boys will be up there until about the into twelve and a half and then they don't
go anymore to church
now one can say up and objectively they are saying no to god christ temperature
but subjectively you don't know and sometimes it's interesting the dialogue but sometimes they have images of god and image of the church or that are really quite incredible
and very interesting it's a very beginning of adolescence and all that that's tied in ribbon cetera
each other
as a person and i
say about their work
then if he thought you start project
a lot of second because true seems to
during recording was on that one
now starting to what aviators industry do you know that something's honestly cannot be out
saving up
and that's it
oh when i wanted to just two little things popped in my head about gnosticism i remember our cross of the up history of the early church
delightful and monk who knew all these fathers etc and had seen a church to his studies go through all these challenges and heresies it's it said the most dangerous moment in the life of the church with its confrontation with gnosticism and it's just a miracle that had survived the biggest miracle life of the church agree this
this of i think very wise monk with surviving gnosticism because it's extremely intoxicating
you know you're a good christian but you haven't got quite off because i've read this latest book that it has something that you haven't got yet
this sort of there's always this you know wanting to
get an inside in a way that i am not and do this through some gnostic some secret wisdom sort of thing and they had fairness it gets a fascinating things of this sort and
the very early fathers had to start finding it iranians certain subjects so and around again
you can also see this is impossible in positive by often they are the road of young people to get back into the church and christianity often
from a secular through pragmatists positive istick world they get interested in the esoteric and sometimes journeying through there
when i was out on the road with father bernard of the way back here and it's he likes to pick up hitchhikers nemesis young guy at two thousand and three know everything about the oriental religions and do islam etc
and i dialoguing with him and party
it turned out that he was born roman catholic he'd gone to the whole are parochial school system and the whole beard he insisted about repressive system is not a percentage and then you just got out absolutely atheist and then gotten back interested in mysticism through hinduism etc and i
said well you know there's a whole area of christians to since as yes he starting to read sunshine of the cross et cetera and now he has a much more serene attitude towards ah the church them before so sometimes this this is also the kind of a path
astro council's sometimes the of best thing to do is not a kind of us direct attack when someone proposes something that's not fully roman catholic enough are insisting i your own
and but a dialogue with what do they have it's positive that might be an inner tension towards us
ah the life of the church for instance in this docking than non christians it says are extremely a radical document up
and the a basic of theological grounds for this is that all peoples comprise a single community this is the very first paragraph and have a single origin since god made the whole race of men dwell over the entire face of your accent concepts so just build into a sort of ontology
giclee we are one community we have one god
one also is their final goal this is what some thomas' talking about and augustus as tension that everyone has to the one to one god
if you're basically a policy is the most idolaters are you see you've got us people just brilliant different directions know probably never get together you've got the worse this restriction the christians here in the see her materials your that's it we're just adding a of
uploaded and encourage the christian vicious much more i'm optimistic in that it would be made by my god and were called the one god this is inside of a soul and when can't see this is no doubt self destruct in whole whole movement smite
but to an extent that these people in these movements are sincerely plugged him to their deepest lights and conscience they're going inward instead
his providence god's providence his manifestations of goodness of his savings designs extend to all men your this takes from scripture about universal salvation against the day when you elect will be united in that holy city ablaze with spindrift god where the nations will walk in his light is universal vision and
citing important for amongst men looked to the various religions for answers to those profound mysteries of the human condition which today even as in olden times deeply stir the human heart here i think we've got something but this
the human heart that stood by these basic questions and religions trying to give the answers to these what is a man when the meaning and purpose of our life what his goodness what is seemed to etc
ancient times down to the present there has asked it among diverse peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things in over the events of human life so quaint before christianity there's a certain intuition
at times indeed recognition can be found of a supreme divinity and of supreme father to such a perception and sector recognition and still the lives of these pupils with a profound religious sense you're talking here about the non-christian religions were this intuition of god and
had this profound religious sense this is paragraph two religions bound up with cultural advancement have struggled to reply to these same questions with more refined concepts and more highly developed language then there's quite a positive paragraph about hinduism may contemplate the divine his dream express it through it
unspent fruitfulness of myths and through searching for what philosophical inquiry
dc police etc buddhism in its multiple forms acknowledges the radical insufficiency of this shipping lunatic likewise other religions to be found everywhere stride variously to answer the restless searching so the human heart by proposing ways which consist of teachings roots of life and
sacred ceremonies
so you can all these religions all over the world everywhere
proposing answers to push their we're not saying actually perfect answers but that are helping these people get closer to god when they're good revisions said not bad and here there's footnote saying
oh this business about these queries as the human heart that all men feel the reader of christian classics will discern hear an echo of the famous sentence of st augustine's confessions our hearts are restless until the rest in the and the other bit about all these religions help
at the catholic church rejects nothing which is true and holy and these religions and here dates a reference to of justin martyr to remember that very early father had this theology of the logos spare articles you done anything with the logo spare my articles
i remember that christ is the word the locals
lovers is the second person and that trinity in good trinitarian theology that wasn't word father expresses himself with such force that this isn't a whole
cool substantial person the law stored now this word is christ the word was made flesh and dwelt among us in jesus christ now just in one that has this theory that there's seeds of the roles that perceive the fullness of incarnation priced seats it can be found friends
and he says in socrates and plato he's or preparations for the gospel just as the old testament is a privilege not i'm sick well because not directly recover
the wish inspiration is there but there are these little seeds of the divine were was always speaking to humanity in sovereigns
and contemporary catholic theologians you too much to be said if socrates and plato why not
why not
sticks etc etc
so of this footnote creatures here that you can hear this echo of justin martyr here so these are some text that suggests this quite up
no approach
to a to these other religions
through the centuries missionaries often adopted the attitude that non-christian religions were simply the work of satan and the missionaries task was to convert from error to knowledge of the one true this decoration marks know for it didn't change in approach now for the first time
hi there is recognition of other religions as entities with which the church can and should enter into dialogue and indeed of this paragraph to concludes the church therefore has this exhortation for her son's prudently and lovingly true dialogue and collaboration with the followers of
other religions and witness of christian faith in life uses dial dialectic acknowledge preserve and promote the spiritual and moral goods found among these men not just in christianity but promote the good it's already there in these other religions as well as the values in their society and
oh karl rahner as an article that caught the bruno pointed out to me he was to come to the united states and give one talk on d significance of vatican to try to sum it up in one conference
he says to speak in kind of global terms of you can see up to now to key moments in the history of the christian community one was the death and resurrection of christ and the second was some paul who opens this to all the gentiles
and she does
i'm inserting the christian gospel into the greek roman culture
and we've been living living i hope not leaving them these two key moments ever since now he says reading into is a kind of third decisive moment in the whole history of the church when we're now opening up not just to greek roman culture we've been working with that through
aristotle and scholasticism and neo scholasticism and for tiny christianity etc but now opening up to every religion and every culture on the would face of the world same were prepared to dialogue with you we are not saying you've got
convert to us to though or greek or roman culture to enter into the gospel but what you've got schools when you got his hindus what you've got etc right from within their you could hear the word of god and live christ etc
so clearly becoming christian but from within that not simply become a christian and adopting a whole series of graeco roman control historical wings this is true
ah syria
it's precisely it
i've seen pictures of i don't know if it's a roman catholic cathedral or just one of the big churches built by the roman catholic missionaries in china
and it's very lacy gothic some something out of southern italy or france right there in the middle of china
and you can see this india also know what these other people are proposing is that there's an indian architecture and and chinese architects and all that that architecture also means of language and culture and way of dress and holy texts etc
and it might be from within their st thomas for instance uses brilliantly aristotle and augusta uses played on sentra now is there a way of using the sacred hindu texts so we made our etc that's the challenge that were
playing with them
a it's not that i just began ten years ago what they were jesuit missionaries in china are many centuries ago that wanted to do this but were not permitted and they were required to continue to say that you kristin latin into contention
but there were these profits preparing the way it's where i think for where we're at now but here again you don't want to go a strange because very subtle distinguishing
ah peripheral cultural elements from the heart of the gospel so it's not it's not easy that's for sure you go to africa you notice the gospel in african culture
but what you'd do you do in a culture and african culture that to time
oh from the beginning of time that they remembered for instances such when you call it were a man as many women right would you do with that sort of thing
now that boom but legally what does it get them but what's the opposite of but
manhattan hockey that polygamy monogamy is seen by some
buy some african christian theologians as a as a western position did you get into this sort of problem just to mr sketch where do you do in cultures in simply had no wine for instance wine is the basic drink in the holy land and certainly in greece and enrolled so no problems
with what about in china would make tea or rewind might be nonexistent
they're the wine or symbols basic simple to nourishment so you get into this sort of problem what kind of bread etc said so
you things
and masters said
it's all right
what should know they're very gap
you see one of the problems if you go the other direction is just cultural assimilation
for instance the hindu culture can assimilate religions are great just as a roman could
and so you accept them and they accept you and you're just another
who the seen some pictures of a little sort of shrines of the gurus and they've god jesus hearing with a marriage gandhi there and it's fine and you tell them you're in they say finally put that up there to there is
as is very synchronistic approach ancient roman said this with their pantheon date went into a new nation with new gods nice a fine which is except them all
so you've got to avoid just a total assimilation into another culture also in it's decadent elements so it's very we've gotta really have the eye of the prophet to serve those qualities in a totally new culture that might be a pregnant with these
seeds of the divine mobiles and those elements that are rather his expressions of fallen man that are everywhere also in greek and roman culture and them so
okay other questions come
soaks this is sort of where we're at this a religious dimension in in every human person this is our thesis and now we can just briefly go over some of the qualities of this religious dimension to help us dialogue with it and then go on to our first biggest challenge to this
right a radical total we've already seen the first and in part and been offered but the first non-christian woodshed my doing
so we're singing every human person in so far as a human person there were created by god for god
there is is opening to the transcendent
the sewage and this kind of interior diameter
going out towards the transom
now what are some qualities of this thing according this is now of classical
one is that this religious dimension does is a precondition for being human to use very offensive language and it's not a result of a choice that i make afterwards first time born and established as or she would person by god and grow and i decided well maybe i'll be religious
or i certainly be i wouldn't be like i decide if you'll be among caribbean be a lawyer and media promise color clothes so maybe i'll watch this program etc it's not like that it's not on the level of
choice it is a little choice but that's not where it begins it's deeper than that i am religious just like and physical and also spiritual i need religion just as i need food and drink
i can decide not to eat and to starve myself even quite to get
that is a second
of choice it comes in a second moment sort of against me and self destructing so a choice not to the religious kind in this analysis which i think it based in scriptures and just see it oh
so it's inside of us and it's right in are being human and so it's not as we might sometimes think the result of a second moments choice
well i think sometimes we have this sort of in general impression was he's chose to be religious he's chosen want to be really just better to fully human beings as such that as you can be fully human and he religious or not that will be the opposite of this thesis and we're saying know if you're fully human you're going to be as for
human religious before removing any question of divine supernatural grace etc
another consequence of this is it pertains to the whole of the human person
here you can get into some interesting debates with people and some interesting presuppositions that we sometimes have for instance what do we mean by revision schleiermacher a great protestant theologian of last century said what is religion it said profound ceiling and every human person of
dependency are being contention
it's that feeling it opens me up to the absolute to the he who created me sustains so when every person there's this feeling our contingency
now this might seem good and it might thus a way to get this universal religious dimension of humanity etc and sort of identify it on a kind of and experiential level etc
and lots of feel options are neil schleiermacher korean the pitch in as christians are to you know she's profoundly religious she's got all these beautiful just sentiments in your sort of thing that is a tend to locate religion and a profound level of sentiment
now part is for bush citizens is this is this has nothing me to do with the gospel of jesus christ who was talking choose deep feelings of dependency
but it was announcing the gospel to issue and park central
ah the problem is if it's taken wrong in are people who defend her iraq or and say don't understand it into superficial away answered but if i understood too superficially religion is confined to the more emotional level and becomes a kind of
sure sure
irrational emotionalism you know i'm religious to the extent that are sort of but
cc were retired so this is so it's also the feeling this accredited are to mr marriott position but not just there
come says legion
this is what can procure will
and there's lots of your cartoons are now also in catholic circles and lots of naps in monastic servants i can't prove that god exists i can prove that the gospel is true i can prove that the monastic life is right for me but i'll make this act will leap into the dark
this and with a strong
keep my will fiercely saying yes always insane
i'll live my religion this is what is optical parameters
sometimes you can see it has sisters
cemetery such kind of a fierce tenth the nervous and they go ahead they move day by day just by a fierce quite avoid active will when you have to admire and of course the will is also very much in religion and it requires so after the waves hundred but for cut it's pure
well it's not reason because you can't prove it and it's not feeling because it's quite beyond that etc so it's pure will there are volunteers around also good
what's the problem with that

i don't think so yeah it's not our wilbon census price
and basically just opening herself serenely to grace it comes in so far as possible to
there are moments for
for heroism and you've got to screw near will too sticky post etc but the christian and religious and the monastic life is continually based upon our heroic act of the will it should be based on christ you see
but and religion should be not just the will
right so it's also it's it's also this some the mystics it's interesting book a the highest mystical experience in in the will others located in the knowing so there's different temperaments and this comes out and different style
child so to speak also have quite profound contemplative prayer and what might find this much more helpful than or what will see coming up now mispronounce it locates of religion in pure reason

given that it
all to extended i'm really bring my and because so they're going through has to be genetic
difference in know
john cross
whatever you have no
physicality be nice
yeah will bring various stimulus response
somebody in less time
hello of one i will know something towards getting on spot close up with these are united states and then now it's an agenda problems he still will
i'm loving response jesus
oh and nine oh
a little pop
we are up when you know
when asked
you see what the actual music lovers the point that as you can have a certain one you can adapt
take a deep
to celebrate it
yeah well
make it connect will help
even though you don't have no one in
i mean

well it's a better prayer any countries certain lol
and your neck
let me know where of lebanese
you will read
the time
right so we say our position is it religion and also faith get there is a integral to the whole of the human so will say it's certainly in the wheel and there might be some key moments in the spiritual life or it's almost exclusively pure will
ah and fate is bob and a very special really realizing there's also a reason agreement to miss the ocean but
one thing is if you understand it as just my act the will obviously that's not yet even on the you simply human level because it's too partial but they also must be the wheel and the next some key moments is a very privileged way the wheel and i think in some mistakes it's also very privileged way
of the will also word love it's for instance
i'm not so much my willing at the my will is this movement toward something else and so get some mistakes put the highest moment in the apex of the will of others couldn't apex of the reasons
that's exactly the guy with the this is purely subjective know he believes in god but he says you can't prove it all i know is it without god everything collapses
morality for instance you'd be this is his
without a god there's no reason whatever to do good
everyone should be bring self and steal rob and lie etc it's only if there's a god fearing rejection said trip and i can prove that there's is got so i'll make an act of pure will that there is this guy who holds everything together otherwise attempt from irrational chaos this is come and his christian and all the rest of a
very rare and a blocker type christian this is very libertarian of the reasons doesn't help us at all because everything is basically absurd it's also very your garden runner

he said that he considers himself became a new york thomas and he's working through heidegger but it's hard to avoid current he's a giant
a for things now the other ones spinoza he locates religion in pure reason
quite different from can't quite a if you know spinoza quite a serene mystic who puts it all together as this immense huge system wearing sees everything plugged into everything else through his pure reason in syllogism to cetera this is a more a kind of thomas temptation at least
no i can argue myself into any doctor and i can argue myself into every aspect of christian and catholic faith and so if i'll just beats clear headed enough and lucid enough and rational enough that's what i live my religion are you gotta be sort of and intellectual thomas type d
get into this kind of trip but there are catholics also in here
i remember at one of the great new thomas had sent up several they used to chocolate when he would preach sunday so would just be a series of thomas syllogism since it didn't tell really convert to many people but it's always interesting but you can get into a kind of a style that assumes and if
we're going to talk about religion let's start laying down art rational analysis of things
and so now if we take seriously this sub augustinian to on a stronger you think all of these things are true but partially true
for instance if you do away with this you're you're in real danger because you've gotten religion as basically irrational and this is what any many people in the modern world think many people worry the science for instance physicists and mathematicians etc will see some of that later
but don't say it's not even that christianity is right or wrong it's just meaningless like same book booker is booker booker
we'll see something this later but
a thing is true or false if i can verify it's to her faults if you tell me that water at a certain temperature starts to boil that's a meaningful statement if you'd tell me that it boils at seventy degrees fahrenheit that's meaningful it might be true or false but it's at least meaningful nine made by little experiment elysium heights not boiling precisely at that
temperature so it's meaningful but faults or if you save yourself a cat out there in the next room that meaningful we can all go out and verify whether it's true or not
but again if you tell me book a book in his book a book and i don't want to say because i have no tools to verify whether it's true or false it just so some people say religion is just like that it's just emotionally so it's just a typical
see more about that
so those are some quality space it's it's a precondition of human nature and it's integral every aspect it's not irrational and it's not against the human will and it's not against human feeling either the deepest level but it's not just one of those things
it's extremely personal this is very important this who causes by in the citizen mary
mrs very important dialogue in his people god and christ are there new them really in them you
their world that they've experienced in their history etc
so i'm everyone who announces the gospel and who shares the gospel
as to have a bit of the gift of of pentecost of understanding other languages getting into a whole different world views etc
and serve setting aside at a kind of a tyrannical once despotic a coach that well if we're going to talk about religion you're gonna get to where i met my categories my experiences etc it's extremely crystals would send me and it's an all my categories but socially and maybe categories are quite different from me
and so that sir
it's personal it's also communitarian
this is interesting what you had these millions and millions of people were following the heat during the to good stewardship the contemporary catholic theology sink god and christ are at work sell basically not just the individual buddhist and hindu but in the great
pilgrimages to mecca and in the great pilgrimages to the ganges etc and in the great mass liturgies that such a winner in a more positive moments the so just not in a kind of individualistic into mr gray
but also in the social and communitarian so those are some aspects of and now we make rush into freud but there's not really times where he might rush into a five minute break and then discuss what we've got and start to think about freud which will take up about a month from
hopefully a hope
ah so there's that and it will see the same thing with a friday and challenge we can just a walk than anything about psychoanalysis or psychology is just kind of anti religion anti feed and against our own monastic vocation so don't stay away from it disorders me
but then you can see going through it and then getting into people like you and a surgery etc and they precisely through psychological categories open up dimensions of kin of interiority yeah profundity and and religion then comes out extremely important for man's psyche kill
well so there's these paradoxes it sometimes if you six eight sure you get there in a way that you wouldn't if you just avoided these very tortuous parents
so that's right we'll see something about that the real superficiality of a certain nut
so-called scientific syllogism it's against christianity and against gone
yeah there's a physicist who to separate berkeley use a good anglican and profound churchmen and he does this right through the physics this businesses

when you get it

oh no
and efficient
as i consult a problem
wait we went beyond

when presented chance

yeah when you get these new positions that are much more sympathetic to us answers me it's not as if they're immediately fully catholic or some sometimes or even more challenging than the original for instance human there are some christians who claim that he's more of a threat in a certain way to
two profound authentic christian experience than freud you get this sorted to be then you get other christians were convinced that true young they enrich their
therefore christian their whole religious experience so and you get then you get into this sort of more complicated to be principally is very interesting and if you ever meet a young man whose on where these first or sick at least you can dialogue with him and also you can dialogue with yourself because he sings with inside of us sometimes a very impressive
and formulated way but all these things are in us because all of us have heard something about of physics center before it smoothly
there's another book critical dance of the woman restaurants recently father lewis's it's another it's another physicist who is doing this sort of thing that if you go far enough right down to the particle and sub particle
to the that is the ultimate building blocks of matter you just get into mystery and the unforeseeable
yeah quantum physics or
these people are saying for the first time
we as scientists cannot for cannot profess i can up for pre predict had that sort of recouping before we cannot predict what's gonna happen knowing all the details there's a so called to heisenberg good so know
it it's just it might do this so you get into statistical probabilities but it might do something quite different you know everything about you possibly can and it's still an unforeseeable you're in the realm of mystery and unforeseen suffering that you get into but this is this sort of thing
other comments questions problems and

can step beyond
you say
he said
who will call them dogs and why he said either

oh right yeah
ah this is always a delicate pastoral crush i don't think you have to hit if if they're certainly can't they can live in their life and events heretic you have to keep them over the head with esoteric far out ideas if it it's delicate
i think one can at least try to have suggested vatican two with is the door through which is as catholics we should all pass and certainly this is the problem with that would see your the fair for that it's not true that is past that door yet and if he isn't than it is difficult to get our act together because that is a decisive moment him
in recent catholic experience living experience if if they can get through the door that you've got a whole common
common ground there that you can start dialoguing about and there's a strict your way of understanding the documents for your way it's and you start dialogue and debate that but if they're not willing to understand to accept this this and becomes very difficult indeed
i think you have to deal with every person
a point of our bunks and mutilated consumed very simple workers family and the mothers delightful she's been profound believer
and profoundly wise but in a very simple sort of peasant way she doesn't know anything about theology or anything could we got and so they sometimes just like to sort of give her a bedtime and chief she just relax execute them a bedtime in his final so there's a a type of culture it's quite different from someone who seem to the later
is that i think is very healthy and very necessary
but if you get a position it's rigidly
against headache and to for instance and you're in trouble
he explicitly and sometimes it's implicitly
the other ideas for man




yeah when cox came out with his thing and there was a whole explosion of secular theology big etc one of the people to contest him right at the very beginning it was very interesting debate was a greeley the famous catholic sociologists the orgy every month is publishing another the book
this area is the sort of time between sociology and theology and it's very strong here and he said what are you people doing like bahnhof her end and cox etc you're using sociological categories and you're using them in a theological context like secular
this is you can do this but
thomas and thomas what does he do it uses philosophical aristotelian categories or one can use all sorts of categories and doing theology but he says if you do what you gotta do it seriously you've gotta know your sociology and this is what i learned that these are people who are not qualified sociologists sociology
just were battering her bow on a kind of a superficial so then he went a big fingers
rigorously speaking sociologically speaking modern man is not at all less religious than medieval or ancient many went through all sorts of he says if that's the cardinal of chicago has known as influence also politically also socially than the cardinal of paris to and
nerd years gold or five hundred years ago or nine hundred years ago
this sort of thing in the analysis of the proportion go to church and and as use any sort of
verifiable category you want and you can't come up with a claim that modern man is less religious in ancient so he says you're just talking
sloppily that's all
so it's interesting
i don't know if we have to procure i mean to look it up but i didn't bet it a greeley something about
non non sequitur modern man something that's very interesting in greeley loves polemics so it was ultimately debate and as you say i cox really stepped down from that one he had sort of romanticized this secular cities in the and teach and to acknowledge it to be a nightmare etc that the religious
switch which comes out and play and ceremonies at the feast of fools sort of thing is
is an essential i think there's some truth to the old secular things something has changed since such the middle ages ah but grilles this is it's more subtle it's more specialized the church now is no longer pretending to try to have to do everything the medical church as the secret drama
on that entertainments and handles the hospital and handles as social services and even the police force and everything else if you're in one of the a religious states and were no i'm grabbing to do that but was concentrating on religion and faith and the gospel etc and that's that's a positive point and that the church
churches are not less present in contemporary society in even in france or germany or the us or south america than they were good one hundred and five hundred useful it's interesting pieces
ah we might end with that and that as i say the next time we'll take up for this sets this gentleman happens