November 1979 talk, Serial No. 00828

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the right lemon fifty end result here sir how to set work he turned on sort new one
your kiddo you can tell from
he is not to change
he might be good
come holy spirit
right in our hearts our thoughts
me the words of our mouths and meditation of hearts he guided by you and acceptable to the father this we pray through christ starting

so some thoughts on the ecumenical commitment and the contemplative life what is the relationship between the two it is an immense area
for instance last year centered someone there was a whole year's semester course just done a humanism to white people took that then if you start getting into what is contemplation and what is relation of the to one could talk for years and years so i will have to say just a few things that there's no
no presumption to try to say it all and perhaps i won't even be able to see the most important thing stop other a complimentary and more important things will come out in the discussion and then your i'm continuing reflection i hope that this is something that can can be ongoing one of the criteria that i will use
than selecting out from the mountain of things when might say i would tend to say the things that of others might not stress for instance i'll be seeing very little about the dialogue with the orthodox not because this is not very important but because others here already expert in syria because to or chances for
the expert will be giving conferences etc so there's no value judgment in what i could in in would i leave out the just a criterion of what a might be useful to say here so good that you do come in contact with a similarly will be sort of basic ecumenical principles but i hope they they are always
it's important i hope i hope they always have some implications for the contemplative life
ecumenical is a greek word which means
the whole inhabited world this is the idea the idea is the concern a christian preoccupation for all the christian churches it used in a more technical sense of just the christian churches the dialogue among them in a broader sense it includes the opening out to all the religious
evans also non-christian religions and indeed to all men of goodwill so the basic thing is is sort of universal opening out now what is this how is this tied in with contemplation
well one of the constant and antiphons will be coming back again and again here either explicitly or i hope always simplicity implicitly everyone here can make his own italians but
whatever contemplation is it certainly has to do with a deeper communion union with god and with christ so that we can say evermore with simple i live not know i but christ in me this means that it's it's more christ in us his vision his heart his mind and us to the just
certain point is is seeing things is responding to things oh and as we noted with pope leo this this vision of christ the love of christ this truth of christ is without limits this is the thing it's not narrow it's not these in yes but those out etc it embraces all mankind
so that paradoxically to the point week that we authentically focus in on christ and the father in spirit to that extent of we brought him out and embrace evermore all of mankind christ king the primary goal of is coming was was love was reconciliation of all
all mankind was breaking down those those walls of divisions and pulses so that this must i should think also be in the heart of the contemplative
oh and also the hermit when you look at for instance and computer damien's dominance will be scooped the lord be with you you all know that tract
and the whole business of why does the hermit and the it will be with you and the player with his alone and saint peter damon's reply that just as each individual member of the universal body is inserted in the whole so in some mysterious way the whole is present in every individual members so the whole
mystical body of christ is present in the hermits so now we'll be seeing the true baptism all christians also methodists baptists and anglicans and orthodox are inserted in christ's body so that we should think of that the lord be with you in the room itself as it's being a
dress to the whole christian communion so in the hermit sell their also baptists methodists and anglicans non sorts of people and the hermit should slowly slowly opened his heart up through gathering these people in a monastic hospitality and up pray for them pray with them etc
so from there are three basic parts to this thing and maybe i will be able to finish so that we could take it up again next week of sort of rob a little space from a english mystics but the three basic parts we might begin with thomas merton certainly more immediate
close then we might go on to the council see some the fundamental ecumenical principles there that i think have real implications for the contemplative life also than the third part then go on specifically to the anglicans and to our initiative what we foresee with this possible up monastic from
foundation in california
and at the end questions demand the debate and suffered so thomas merton revolt already seen rather a briefly in some of our discussions some of the problems in interpreting merton because he's a very poetic spirit he's a very broad and complicated spirit
one essay say he might stress one thing and then another essay quite a different thing and they almost see my to people but i don't think he's ever telling lives i think he's your different dialectic dimensions of the same man
now whatever you do with merton and however you try to push him i think it would be very hard to come up with a murderer news anti ecumenical indeed i think you could argue that one of the primary characteristics of merton one of the keys to him is this incredible ecumenical openness as
monk and i think it becomes ever more astonishingly open as you go on it's not that he becomes more and more narrow but more and more very serenely broad he's interested in agnostics and atheists in their intuitions of transcendence as he says he's interested in zen buddhism
he's interested in the whole hindu tradition in the fathers and orthodox tradition is also a nice things to see above the anglicans i which i will bother to site but also about the protestants do through bart the whole thing and as i say this becomes more and more serenely open as he goes on
i think one couldn't even say that first he gets him to the uniquely monastic experience and then he's able to open himself out sometimes we use a rather simplistic before after model first style do this and then i could do all sorts of things i think with him it is as he moves ahead
ed his growth in christ permits him to open out evermore and as he opens out ever more this enriches precisely his contemplative prayer is contemplative experts his readings in offers new dimensions and then he goes more into his contemplative and then he opens out and the sophie's or for another team
richmond centre so i think it's this kind of dialectical moving ahead
the most this is the uniquely monastic approach our that the deep things he does discovered this amazing
common heritage common religious experience in division in diversity he's never a kind of sloppy eclectic this is a great danger of serious ecumenism just putting it all together like a happy i wish to
he does distinguish levels and degrees and notes problems etc but this never prevent him from be open
in dialogue to the authentic religious spiritual values of all these heritage's and also to see the limits of his positions said
we might to give this a little more focus as i say afterwards we can discuss to on things we might focus on one of his essays the deals explicitly with the students entitled a humanism and renewal it was first published in the journal of ecumenical studies in sixty eight you remember he died
in december of sixteen so this is one of his last essays ah
now this
is rather weaker than i would like because here when he started about humans he's talking specifically about the protestants and specifically the lutherans and this is good and everything he says here i think it's true also the dialogue with the anglicans but i think you could say war with the anglicans here is dealing with the monastic life here and the lutherans here and sing out
and you get them together now it's a little different with the anglicans because they've been living the monastic life four hundred years and some argue that there is in their spirit and essentially monastic benefited the note to begin with since they come out of the medieval english experience and the in system
that continuity etc so everything here is true but i think you could argue a fortiori all the more it's true are the anglicans so he starts by praising tuesday york's west and other article by the way appraising to say in mystic since and masters the highly successful protestant money
plastic experiment of casey has a short time come to be seen by many catholics as a providential sign of the times and even as a paradigm for catholic monastic renewal it does combine a traditional form of christian monastic life with a welcome flexibility and with a strong
ecumenical emphasis a combination of these elements is even more significant than the fact that a protestant monastery should exist so we sing the key thing here is not my word their protestants but that they're putting together these three things so the monastic heritage a welcome flexibility
and this a real ecumenical commitment
i might note that about the year he wrote this apparently up roman catholics started wandering into a to become members and now there are over ten a roman catholic monks fully progress the tc also priests of i'm in correspondence with one of them me up
from a catholic priest whose full member the community of say on all the problems of liturgy of eucharistic sharing etc have been resolved with the for a benediction of the roman catholic bishops so that sometimes these things like ecumenical monastic communities teacher of
wild things far out sort of really avant garde pioneering but many of the aspects have been worked out there so sit mckinnon so and then it goes into a rather complicated analysis of the history of the thing he's not just interested in getting protestant lutherans now together with monasticism but he says
let's look back what was luther doing he was saying no to the whole medieval heritage of which monasticism was an important part so he was saying no to monasticism at least a kind of monasticism he knew and a burton notes that it was a kind of a flabby monasticism it was a kind of
baroque and also very legal istick rigid monasticism didn't have the thesis know we have the reform catholics get all nervous there's the contrary form there's trent and you get a bonus system which courting tumor is even more richard more linguistic more problems
so he's seeing this whole problem in a long ranging historical
so after trent the tension or set up between the zeal for monastic reform within a traditional structures and the often tendentious attack on monasticism from without provided plenty of energy and motivation and individuals and communities service was great upsurge of let's get monasticism going again the result was a rat
either inflexible but sincere devout life stern emphasis on regularity not to say legalism was justified by a casual mystical and sometimes arbitrary theology monastic determination after trent bore fruit now in a fantastically single minded in tennis on quote heroic
virtue and quote now in touching go bizarre manifestations of a mystical stamp
he goes on and on about these dangers of a kind of this type of monasticism after trent
i don't even among monks been an all kinds of sectarian middle you to state of struggle and of tension sustains any illusion of special election an incorruptible truth
we're in reaction against them are kind of a siege mentality so we insist we've got it we've got the rule we've got the truth the endemic disease of monasteries is the people in them to so much to save their souls that they lose them because his other part of this separate and irony instead of the gospel loser source to go
when we're so concentrated on being saints and i'm not in the sense that they are damned for being good but in the sense that the concentrate on such particular limited aspects of good that they become perverse and singular this is interesting i think this is the essentially a cumin
colbert and open to the who says watch out for this narrowness getting it all down to to me and my sanctity and and then he goes on in not infidelity to tedious but predictable rule can become an easy substitute for fidelity in openness and risk to the unpredictable word
but this is very few for his rather close to a kind of come out at least spirit i think once i got word of god which is unpredictable the challenge of freedom and spirit and the other vets get the rules let's get the observance et cetera but the whole point of monastic desert life is precisely to equip them
anke for risk for walking with god in the wilderness and wrestling with satan invulnerable freedom is this instead of this wilderness faith in peril
one in this other model after trent excepts faith in another kind of desert that of protective authoritarian routine so this is the problem when you're discussing the protestants in monasticism which protestants in what monasticism
then he says
now luther is saying no to this gets out of this now he's saying no and it's getting out can be an authentic monastic challenge to us to renewal would want experiences the sterility and unfreedoms have any new of in existence which has become self contradict
thing than one can of course completely repudiated get out of it put it behind him that is what luther did his repudiation of a faults and formalistic monasticism struck a blow for monastic truth first he was talking about this we've got the whole truth and rigidity it's history since the authentic monastic to pro
as eisley is served by martin luther by saying no to this whole thing and getting out in cysteine on other things in doing so he was really being faithful to the grace that had originally called him into the cloister i think this is the merton that goes beyond appearance this is the typically money
nasty merton and can go beyond the let's defend our team sort of thing protective mentality to sink know he's going out might be a faithful monastic renew of gesture and might be fidelity to what he was called into to do so
this is the dialectical he sets up so you might get into a kind of renewal of monasticism getting behind the strength rigidity precisely through plugging in to the ecumenical an ecumenical opening out this is his basic thing
pieces of the essay and that's the basic consistently tough of i would suggest
it is at this precise point today than given the situation would we do that too important lines of development are one hopes going to intersecting monasticism one the lived theology which is the monastic experience with this very much on this and to the expansion
expansion and opening of perspectives which lead to a lived unity the common sharing of christian grace in crisis irrespective of christian divisions so first we we can't set aside authentic monastic terrorism and second we can't make
have to open out and the ecumenical cases this possibility then he says i'm going to add a third dimension going even beyond the dialogue simply with christians to all men of goodwill is for joan witty i would also extend this to meet a third line the common religious aspiration of humankind and it's groping for
transcendent experience however you want to qualify it so he says three dimensions first the monastic life must have an authentic relevant relevance to its own right is a focus of christian experience with a monastic orientation and he does very much insists on this
a second the monastic life must preserve or acquire an ecumenical relevance in the form of an openness which is not only ready and able to discuss creedal or sectarian differences with polite detachment but which is able to share on the deepest level the risk and agonies of chris
to life through the monastic life must prove itself able to be relevant even to the unbeliever who has nevertheless concerned with self transcending experience
oh then he gets involved in a very complicated thing about vows can you have a monasticism without permanent vows and he says that maybe you can it might be a very good thing i'd like to stick myself with vows we but seen in the more traditional benedictine concept of metanoia
then he goes back to the thing of renewal of our monasteries precisely through ecumenical open our opening out and he says a greater flexibility in the monastic structure would permit the development of ecumenical monastic communities there is no reason why non-catholics
six and even unbelievers should not be admitted to a serious participation at least temporary in monastic community life to restart about non-catholic specially lutherans and even unbelievers here and monastic life there again the problem is rather diminished if you've got anglican monks who might have been already living the monastic
application for thirty years here and of roman catholic monks here it's a different problem that he was dealing with and sixty eight there weren't even roman catholic monks a taser yet but again i think it's true and the old up a fortiori all the poor argument obviously the details would have to be worked out but there is nothing in them
monastic life itself which makes this impossible to he's talking even about doing it with the unbelievers the monastic spirit is alive today seeking new ways to express its eschatological hope and to become vitally aware of it's only two potentiality ease that is why on the one hand protestant it's
self protestantism itself is contributing to the monastic renewal and why on the other monasteries are promising to become center's not only an ecumenical discussion but of deeply lived and participated ecumenical experience i might just mentioned in the march hear that
maybe all with you know but at the holy hermitage commodity we have had for some time now a swiss reformed pastor living when would see the full aeromedical life with us he said the cell and he participates in the for liturgical life the reunion of the community etc where's the choir habit
he preaches once a week takes his turn or every wednesday is effect so he's preaching today joshua and it's been a very rich experience sometimes when we think putting up the contemplative monastic aeromedical life together with acumen is so you've got to compromise in the water down i would not also miss experience josh
joshua is a man of profound career and a tremendously dedicated to silence and solitude etc so it's not a this and trying to get it together with some sort of compromise with this but all the people at the hermitage thing and there's been incredibly a little difficulty about the thing precisely because he is such a
man of the into your prayer of the bishop is calm and less to sell and
so what he was saying might be done is that i've heard it's already the case also in various monasteries in the states often you don't announce it from the house tops because there's a whole question of are scandalized the little ones etc but up there is this movement forward that merton i think rather pathetic
glee foresaw and of course all this has implications for our hopes for the little about monastic foundation in california now what do you do together when you get into the monastery of their hermitage together it's is two things of silence and dialogue and he concludes this way and i think it's a lovely a concluding
key of the fuller merchant that has both elements together
the unique and we also we've been talking about silence in word and this period the unique and precious dimension that the monastic life can contribute to ecumenical experience is the deepening of unity that comes not only from talking together but from being silent together the monastic life when it is true to its own
carries is pervaded with a sense of the definitive it comes to those who in silence refrain from the futility of articulation so been together getting down to the deeper roots of our unity and also have our problems yet also and here's the balancing britain
what must be grasped are the provisional needs to be articulated in honest and and dogmatic speech the to go together the monastic dialectic of silence and language underlines the deeper dialectic eschatology and incarnation for these two decisive descent
social dimensions of christian experience monasticism in all forms of life and the concretize himself in silence and the word of the words and the silence which complete each other in deeply validating christian experience are rooted in the ultimate prisons and reality of love
have sued or do it gets back to that point also the relation of i think contemplation and as the ecumenical so now to rush into the area of 'em
the humanist and what do we talking about when we're doing a cuteness and will see there's many ways you can do a two minutes and it doesn't mean just a conferences and weeks of study etc but you do want to do it seriously you want to get to the principles and or something the history of a key
communism is i say at something somebody spent a whole year on this that will try to do something if now fifteen or twenty minutes as you know the ecumenical movement started in the stricter since sometime last century you can focus in on several things that were developing then ah
especially among the separated brethren and here to waive the anglican flight they were real pioneers of their own lambeth with quadrilateral sets her the magna carta it was the magna carta basis of the ecumenical movement right up to the present time they set the rules sort of speak in the principles and things you
can't abandon and that you don't want to subject to absorb any experience with each ecclesial experience can bring it's own richness to the final church etc of what they said really many many years ago are still
the ground rules of the game
now add the beginning when among the separated brethren there was this movement and it was gaining momentum the immediate roman catholic reaction was very negative i don't think quinn can deny that it's a historical fact very negative indeed there were some very official documents very down on this new beast or acumen
oh and this was because we now realize there was a kind of operating model in our head at the explicit level were often on the unconscious level of what the true church was and it was a very simple model and it was that first bottle their the one true church is very simply aren't church the roman
catholic church and it is the sheepfold and the others the protestants new orthodox their the the heretics very least this is medics who are outside the sheepfold so there's really no ecumenical problem there's only one church there is simply the problem of the sin and the stubbornness of
these heretics and systematics and if they want to resolve the problem all they have to do is return to the sheet for this was the model so we'll keep the door open will be polite to them when they come back for they must confess their errors and repentance etc but this was very simple model so according to that model one of the implications of the stuff
the unconscious level is the more divided they are the better because a house divided against itself cannot stand it said so all the better it's one of the signs that they are not in the truth the world sorts of that slogans only truth has rights error has no rights and they're outside so that more divided the are
them are confused all the better
so so the ecumenical movement was seen as a threat there's no doubt about it and to the whole ecumenical movement we responded very strongly official documents seeing no catholics should have anything to do with the ecumenical movement because it was a it was saying no to the fun
we were going with and so that was the situation
also father walter abbott for instance are quite a scholar and in his introduction to the document on acumen as keynotes and more hatch
nuanced language each year in january for many decades roman catholics have offered eight days of prayer for church unity until nineteen fifty nine just twenty years ago the general idea behind those days of prayer with the hope that the others would return to the one true church so
so it's the one should fold the others return model that was it and we were praying for their conversion so you pray for christian unity etc but it was in that sense
now things have changed that's why it's a little delicate talking about a who were in one of those areas where the church has changed and some people like change other people don't like teach but you do plug into our emotional things here subconscious things so does get tricky
certain that the bread and arterial it could be better but you do get into this problem and the i can make a note a movement has noticed that some of the biggest obstacle separating us aren't doctrinal differences really think they're the cultural differences their psychological differences but someone who from the age of one on as
as heard in one way or other express for meet the parents the mother the father the priest everything that first model it's very difficult to plug into other models but the church has changed and this is one of the awkward things
a couple of weeks ago said would put on the bulletin board a little a quote about a quote ecumenism unquote is it was it was rather negative and it quoted some what was an archbishop or something that came from italy and spoke in the states but the key thing there was the date he spoke there in nine
t twenty one i think
and that's the key at that person come to me i could have given him statements much more official much more violently anti ecumenical than that one but it can the dates are important this is one of the areas where so up to fifty nine certainly it was that way now some are still speaking that language of a favour and here
his group but i think if you're in any sort of us
symphony or harmony a communing with the council up you know that things have changed of just at the very before the council even got started pope john started making noises about what the council would be about that meant that the church was starting to take a whole different approach
coach to this
as some father abbot noticed a pope john desired and here's quotes from pope john himself to invite the separated communities to seek again that unity for which so many souls are longing in these days throughout the world precisely in the ecumenical council thus the pope took a number of remarkable steps in that too
action he asked that observers be delegated by the protestant and orthodox churches yeah them seated in st peter's right across the aisle from the cardinals right up into place the foreigner he established a secretariat for promoting christian unity would be at the service of the observers that was been made permanent by paul really revolution
arie things to have the new secretariat taking me a providential choice the biblical scholar the cargo bay at etc so before the council even got off the ground quite remarkable things that were happening then in the council any one of the council documents you could look at and see
remarkable ecumenical implications there you don't just have to focus in on the document on of humans if you look at the church the whole theology their collegiality a basic value for the anglican heritage took me for the orthodox etc or the whole model of people of god the whole theme of continual reform
the confession of a central churches at all these things are speaking of a new language which make humanism much much easier if you look at the document up of literature the centrality the liturgy sort of putting a private devotions to etc in this a more central in the context of this more central moment
or document on a revelation centrality the primacy the word of god said all these documents are ecumenical in that sense of the anglican observer at lambeth a cannon paulie he wrote an immense book on the anglican roman catholic dialogue to force
centuries it's in the library neta multi
links media display i could occur but he said when we were a at the counter we will just delighted it was almost as if he says in a kind of anglican arrogance was almost as if the whole thing had been written in lambeth because there is for them quite an anglican language you for the orthodox has also
some things that approach them more and are not over the lutheran tradition said but there is a new language here
now if you focus specifically on the decree of acumen is it meets a beautiful document i hope everyone has read it and and meditated it dutch artist refreshed certain of both the
things your date start out seeing how this is so central to us is that again ecumenism wasn't important at all the catholics it was very marginal up to fifty nine and you could we barely get a week of prayer out of it and i remember prop catholics and you could never going to a protestant church it was mortal sin and all this
a promoting the restoration of unity among all christians is one of the chief concerns with the second sacred ecumenical similar vatican a church established by christ the lord is indeed one and unique yet many christian communions present themselves to men as the true heritage of jesus christ this is the problem we're starting to
come to terms with the scandal of our divisions without doubt this discord openly contradicts the will of christ provides a stumbling block to the world and inflicts damage on the most holy cause of proclaiming the good news to every creature on so our theologians are fighting thing that the sin
of our divisions is the worst sin of all a certain sense because it's a seem directly against the communion the reconciliation that christ died and rose again to consigned to us it's a sin directly didn't that communion that should be the primary witness before the words begin to the whole
world of that love which christ has come to bring this was especially felt in the third rule of unfortunately we in europe and america gotten so used to there being one church here another church just down the street and they're both preaching christ in they're having nothing to do with each other we've almost access
that this is kind of the normal situation he did we sort of like it it gives us a sense of our our club gear and exclusiveness we've got our in-group and and a kind of a pride that they're still on the outside etc
a third world was really scandalized when our missionaries arrived and one missionary would proclaim christ year was reconciling all been another missionary there would proclaim the same thing but think have nothing to do with oh so this was incredibly contradictory what we finally become became aware of that all much
now the countess says thank goodness there's this ecumenical movement going that council recognises started with are separated brethren there's the holy spirit there to say if you compare this with certain official documents thirty or forty years before the differences incredible in one official document
the leaders of the l ecumenical movement were called proud men whose god is their belly it's hundred center but here we get in a different approach will were saying the holy spirit is acting them nevertheless december despite the scandal of our divisions the lord of ages wise the impatiently follows out the pie
lahn of his grace on behalf of us sinners the whole languages new rule no longer time but those sinners but us sinners in recent times he has begun to be still more generously upon divided christians remorse over their divisions and longing for unity this is a grace every
where large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace and among are separated brethren brethren their increases from day-to-day a movement fostered by the grace of the holy spirit for the restoration of unity among more christians so here explicitly they're saying this ecumenical movement started in this
moving among the protestants and orthodox is inspired by the holy spirit taking part in this movement which is called ecumenical are those who invoke the tray on guard and confess jesus is lord and savior then our catholic site this sacred synod therefore gladly not all these factors it is already declared its teaching on the church
search the number church and now moved by a desire for the restoration of unity among all the followers of christ it wishes to set before all catholics certain helps pathways and methods by which they too can respond to this divine summons and grace so now we can also i get on the boat and big
cause it the boat is inspired by the holy spirit and here are certain principles and i we just can't go through all these principles but i would not the very people equal language the very i really approach
now there are certain basic principles that are very decisive here it says that there are divisions the faults have been the fog both sides i won't read all the texts here but if you look at number three this is very explicit one cannot impute the same of division to the separated brother know
sometimes if i'm methodist shows up with the door we think underneath it's at least some the unconscious level he's a sinner because he doesn't become a catholic it says so when cannot impute the sin of separation of those who present are born in these communities and our instill therein with christ faith once we might have said are you still there in and
heretical error etc no are instilled in crisis the the catholic church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers for men who believe in christ and have been properly baptized are brought into a certain though imperfect communion with a catholic church here we're starting to move towards the so
second model now these are brothers these are christians inserted into christ inserted into his body all those justified by faith through baptism are incorporated into christ they varied therefore have a right to be honored by the title of christian now properly regarded as bruh
others systems and this category christians their brothers in the lord by the sons of the catholic church
moreover we've so many centuries been stressing what divides us now we're starting as pope john said to note of what unites us moreover some even very many of the most significant elements or endowments which together go to build up and give life to the church yourself can exist outside the visible
boundaries of the catholic church he was trying to get more settled about visible the invisible to the written word of god these are things that they can have to the life of grace faith hope and charity along with other interior gives to the holy spirit and visible elements all of these which come from true crime
just and lead back to him belong by right to the one church of christ so they have all these things and they aren't christians they are our brothers
now in the past if you were incredibly open minded you could almost operate out of that first model and say all these things saying yes individually john mayer that methodist and paul that baptist etc each one of them in his heart of hearts is very sincere and has christ he's invisibly part
of the roman catholic church but the problem with that first model is it takes no recognition of the fact that there are other churches out there they're not just individuals paul and john but child belongs to a whole be church maybe of millions and paul have another of millions of there are hundreds of millions of christians who are not roman catholics
it's and they're not just out there individually each one on its own but they performed to churches now after much struggling and debate in the council
the a document officially recognizes there are churches out there and those churches are instruments of salvation instruments of grace so now we are getting into the second model
ah the brethren divided from us also carry out many of the secret actions of the christian religion who were getting into the whole area of literature
undoubtedly in ways that vary according to the condition of each church or community so now we've got churches were talking now not just about the church and than the heretics but about churches these actions can truly and gender his actions liturgical actions can truly and gender a life
of grace and can be rightly described as capable of providing access to the community of salvation it follows that these separated churches in the plural and there's a footnote during this over debate that occurred and communities flexible here because some of the communities are so distant from
us and they might not have not had the episcopate he might not have any sacrament like the quakers so you can't just indiscriminately see churches but some of the communities are so close to us have so many elements that you do have to start talking about churches so it follows that they separated churches and communities though we believe they suffer
from defects have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mischief salvation for the spirit of christ has not refrain from using them the churches as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from a very fullness of grace and truth and trusted to
cook to the catholic church
so here i think we have it an implicit levels something like this model you can get all sorts of models out of vatican two pushing and shoving but i think talking it over with other acumen humanist etc that lots of theologians would say this is the basic working model now it's not saying that all the church
as recall there is a privilege church which i've marked a little heavier than the roman church which has in some sense the fullness of all truth necessary for salvation and which as the primacy of peter etc but there are other no longer just individuals outside the one true church there are other communions and or
all of these are inserted in christ and all of these taken together in some sense represents the larger church unfortunately they are not in communion fully of sacramento and doctrinal this is the problem error of these arrows which to indicate tension as
and disagreements this is the ecumenical problem
and so i think something like this is of the model when we say one holy catholic and apostolic church that is true now but it's particularly an eschatological hope we've never cleaned that even the roman catholic churches perfectly united systems and of the favorites are
is perfectly holy is perfectly universal etc etc so we've got this now and then we've got attention towards the not yet in this theology of brothers or because a churches greek in greek is feminine of the sister churches and this is a whole patristic and even biblical
a theology the sister churches were getting back to that we're rediscovering it in singapore for instance when some paul talks of of ecclesia it's very rarely in our sense of the one universal church it's usually the church of wrong the church of the collections the church of ephesians etc he has all these sister churches
as but hopefully in communion of sacrament and doctrine so you have the larger universal church now this is where we're tending towards this is the that he can to model of the coming great church it's that i think that usually the patristic model and to the anglican model i
think it's a sometimes to the ducks model but i'll leave that to the experts
of the ecumenical movement it's not just unity but safeguarding diversity the whole thing of a simple the body of christ with a diversity of working services beautiful so in the coming great church the church of the reform will continue to underline the word the churches the orthodox we're not seem to cetera so safe
our diversity but in one communion
now what were wrong you can have sister churches with an older church and older sister and elder sister who sort of guides things and decisive moments that's the function of of peter for instance the anglicans recognize most of them and have for years the primacy of peter the whole issue of is in
what sense etc etc but in any case so this doesn't mean just leveling all the churches and it's all the same in a kind of a sloppy sentimental you'd think know there's very articulate different functions of the different sister churches are but that's we will come pope paul the six
it's that the canonization of the forty english and welsh miners made a statement about the anglican communion which is a very important at which is very much pointing towards this a model
because there were anglican observers they're there's a permanent anglican center in rome a for dialogue with chrome because the anglicans have committed all the way we start so the pope is saying now addressing these anglican observers in the anglican communion there will be no seeking to lessen the legitimate prestige and the worthy patrimony of
piety and usage proper to the anglican church when the roman catholic church is humble servant of the servants of god is able to embrace her ever beloved sister capitalized sister in the one authentic communion of the family of christ to here to say we're not too
trying to say no more anglican tradition bitter g etc patrimony you've gotta join us you've gotta leave it on become more roman than nice this was the model of many of the converts from england convince him in the last century they became more roman than the neapolitans know the whole anglican heritage there will be safeguarded but
we will have this embrace in the one family of got and he's explicitly calling the anglican communion your church which is a paradoxical because they themselves tend to call themselves communion this is their model of the episcopal church in the us with that in australia with that in canada united in the one commune
to stress because i didn't just sit communion this might have seemed like a slight slight squeeze bending over backwards and the anglican church our sister and we're not going to so this is decisive for i think this new theology of what it's all about now this is technical
ecumenism but i think this also has all sorts of implications also for our monastic life for our contemplative life for our life of career it's that you can use all this i think his parables of of different ways for instance relation between two monastic communities grabs missing congregation or the monastic family
this ideally is the benedictine congregation of different families different communities each very different but in inter communion centered on the one christ you can and some years ago you could get into that first model ours is the one troop and addicting observant and all the others are or not
not good to the extent that they do not resemble us then you can get in at least a kind of a dialogue situation etc but with tensions etc but ideally the great variety of monastic families throughout the world could live in this kind of
get on a personal level i'm not much of an artist but if this were dead well it could be a kind of a one dollar that is a a a meditative symbol that enables us to to focus and to enlarge our hearts the center is christ one could talk about the various dimensions of a push each person the victory ski
cool taxa the the body the mind and spirit and each man and we can't repress any of these are try to get rid of it we must get each of those in a kind of a harmonious into communion ot centered in christ so this kind of model can conserve for all sorts of things
there's a an orthodox friend of commodity he spent a great deal of his time at commodity than he spends a great deal of time at montauk folks he's a real artist and he hopes and restore the icons there he does lots of paintings are icons for us one of them is very interesting it's three monks one very young way
middle aged and one older it's kind of a parable of a kind of hopefully the growth in monastic contemplative spirit the very young when there is very tense in his face is is angry and
then the middle aged man he's still got as problems you can see it on his face but he's starting to get it together and there's more varied dimensions that are now coming out explicitly etc and the older monk has a beautiful serene face obviously has many many site to emitter harmoniously so if you could sort of shifting
into countenances this is what he did kind of as this little a parable of course you could have young monks were already here and old monks that are still there but that first model that it's all in me and if you don't agree to me with me you're in error and there's a lot of anger really and
intention in that first one there still up tension as second one but you're starting to try to get it together in the third there's lots of harmony and so is i say this is technical acumen isn't but i think you can apply it on several levels to try to wrap this up oh
then there's all sorts of exhortations into all catholic stoop to get involved in this thing maybe i won't even read them but if you don't put him saying this is a duty of every catholic according to assuage etc then there's stress we can learn from the separated brethren
we don't claim to have it all the holy spirit is there we can learn from their another passenger lists very decisive or amazing curious person says system regroup there's defects and all sorts of things in me up catholic thing
therefore if the influence of events or of times has led to deficiencies in conduct in church discipline or even in the formulation of doctrine is a footnote says this incredible and since a paragraph six which must be carefully distinguish from the deposit of faith it's so they should be a pro
epperly rectified at the proper moment the distrusted the church should be in continual reformation etc
so that whole business now how to contemplative plug into this there's a whole beautiful section on with the grass spiritual acumen isn't there can be no acumen is worthy of the name without a change of heart for it is from the newness of attitude from self denial and unstinting
love that yearnings for unity take their eyes and grow towards maturity we should therefore pray to the divine spirit for the grace to be genuinely self to denying humble gentle in the service of others to have an attitude of brotherly generosity towards them citing and paul with patients barry
with one another in both
on the basic corrigan recognition that if we're going to get here it's not going to be to settle negotiation and skillful whatever it's can be a grace of the holy spirit so the whole thing of conversion of heart of prayer etc
this change of heart and holiness of life along with public and private prayer for the unity of christians should be regarded as the sole of the whole ecumenical movement and can rightly be called spiritual and humanism
so you can read critical so i'll wrap it up here we haven't said anything about our dialogue with the anglicans and concretely our community that could come up a bit in the questions dialogue or on i can go into that have some minutes at the beginning of next week
so now we might what take five minutes sort of a stretch and then come back here in any discussion questions objections about all this or also about the specifically the anglicans the foundation what it might be like when it might not like etc
cause there's not that much time
people always charm sure hope we can explain or less the context
so any problems questions
should so as it's really worked out to technical live in your post
so i'm not made of me
the longsword
the or you're actually
yeah sure
how much does she
a tizzy is a real help to anyone interested in a humanism and monasticism because they have been living there since
certainly since or nineteen forty
pastor shoots want to see he was alone for years and years and years but from forty eight he's been together with the brother really so that's a big help now every monastic ecumenical community is rather different is starts from princeton's tizzy wants to be fully integrated one community
ah i saw shadows i might wait so their model is one community
the boonies can find one of you
ah but anyway what we would share with him is working on things certainly you eat together since is certainly you can do
sure it's not a roman catholic way you to potatoes image reformed way then the divine office this can be shared and this is extremely important than the whole thing a basic monastic life of who takes turns cooking who worships the pantry etc just the base
click the tricky thing is the eucharist
and there are various ways of handling this
then again your your basic model do you have one community year or two if a roman catholic goes there he goes to join that one community and his superior is that photo shoots this is remarkable this will not be the case with us at least for the foreseeable future we talk about a joint community so
we will be terrifically distinct the hopefully spiritually converging so if a roman catholic comes to us wants to join you'll become a a canal bullies with all of
we're explaining the whole thing of how you work out the concrete province of ecumenical living together and to what extent is a helps i was mentioning that we are less ambitious than tsa and since it is wants to be one integrated community so a roman catholic who enters their his superior
yer is the protestant pastor and brother john is priest to wrote me he says we are one community and they don't even like to talk about what the roman catholics to relative to the he said it that's getting back to differences people from tizzy can be very touchy weapons christians to the main thing is what unites us will one community it said
less ambitiously a joint community terrifically distinct so if a young man roman catholic wants to come enjoy he will it her the roman catholic side us all our constitution to etc apply they're terrifically that foundation depends from of the generals council it's at rhetorical
if an anglican comes he joins the order of the holy cross with their constitutions et cetera of therefore different superiors different divisions that whole things which much certainly we can share the divine office how do you do that you can do to models one is the tc model of working out one metre g door there's the shift tone
model of in the morning lots of western right in the evening vespers eastern right we are tending towards that rather because tsa insisted it's a parable of the coming great unity we want to be a parable of the coming great unity but in diversity
so instead of working out some sort of
common denominator literature which would take a lot of work and a lot of who it should come out about lived monastic experience to be to you can't work it out to at the table so a kind of a boards of anglican right vespers roman catholic right sort of thing we were thinking that for the roman catholic
site of we would be happy to take simply the liturgy as it's celebrated here largely i don't foresee given me but anyway we can so that hopefully there would be a real continuity with new commanding in that regard became critically the foundation and new commodity are quite autonomy
this is the one doesn't want to infringe on the liberty the other or cause troubles for the other but they're there hopefully will be a spiritual bond and one of the expression to that will be this this war liturgy then anglican morning prayer according to the liturgy of years old across that they've been living with for hundred years modifying retreat
etc silk
so now the problem is the eucharist tizzy i am told work this out this way they have a eucharist only once or twice a week celebrated the roman catholic priest celebrates it
and distributes then they have communion service and distributed to all the bread and also the protestants with the blessing of the bishop week days instead you have communion services and the protestants or one side it's an anglican priest who gives continue to them
and the roman catholics on the website that's the official position it gets complicated because there are unofficial things done because the ecumenical always permits the exception in certain circumstances that are not public etc etc and the bishops know about this that they don't want it
to announce from the house tops at such as so we will now have to get in dialogue with bishops roman catholic and anglican of oakland were told that roman catholic is very open acumen agree of course there's all sorts of things being done a community in berkeley area carefully thoughtfully incidents not your fleet cetera
but we would always want to be in full communion with him
et cetera so that's a sketch a some of the aspects
other questions on
i'm a
maces to churches with diversity inside her
critical point
because of that model
a musical god have mercy is all about who you are
this is
sign of all and was called
so on
but like that where diversity react with consent to our extend itself off from one areas
it's simply a little dessert
it wouldn't talking about system shirt and
a different meaning to term and like sometimes of blue and use
then there's a kind of painful difference there will use it were
new off
oh he looks like copy levels that was women's wear nation thing
so i guess there's various things here is what does he look what kind of or not as well
you don't really have mild mood three laws each one of those groups as at songs on sale
ah separate understanding
of a fundamental ah no lol dolphins when was that you sacramento priesthood ah so i decided to drink yet be very careful not to go from mild mannered read and our
avoiding pain of that
difference is this does looks either
and ah use and i think is a great plans today that area we saw it
i understand it we not because the clothing is absolutely true
the skin separation on for like both songs
and there's a guilt feelings volunteer
lol on my size but the everybody
and to selected for example to solve this difference then
you know kind of a peerless have and sometimes will watch a with she said we have this is not good to the second one would you say that i say it's one thing is a official
and of inefficient
do are kind of has a chasm in great care has purchased just to give you an example from bourbons life
oh he gave up i got this post problems he gave a treat to long
a group of peace activists can burn with one
in the mail and some of them campus on not
andrews lot of the eucharistic young true and for the bird was so song
and during has to give up the stone
began it
and afternoon in the second district of his friend
something's the first person to see work after this incident and in this piece of exact words he used he said a burden music as a punching bag to that leg with bird
because of his up
or is very own kind of
casual approach to new yorkers who very self as very clear policy and intimate a distinction between being very open very warm heart during the title logical etc etc
slow to me careless to be general superficial
on the sacramento on that
subsidies ill
burton was very good and if this person close to and worsley monica in the dialogue between credit meeting in christians and non-christians i mean this is media
tricky well with well
people caught an honest reputation of you could do little things like man say his office well on a trip
oh and carry his favorite relics with in that those things like that
desert with a very amusing this example them
we both like that extremely forty
the try to answer very briefly and then me that we can open up also good next time so i guess there's some various dimensions to this common for instance one might simply be what could this etc indicate diversity of liturgies etc what could it indicate for us that's various
it's very rigorous here are specifically regarding the anglicans for instincts there's a lovely article in now the recent way the turnover english to anoint into the jesuits by this some father yarn know who is the roman catholic expert on anglicans he does a projection of what will be the coming great church as
sort of projecting from this model of popcorn six and he says the anglican communion would be treated as a separate patriarchy eat so the question what are these etc as a separate patriarchy under the archbishop of canterbury with its own cannonball liturgy and traditions
anglicans would acknowledge the books primacy of jurisdiction but would be affected by it only when it was needed to repair some breakdown in the workings of the anglican jurisdiction or when there was need of a final court of appeal
so what would this etc me it would mean for instance theological heritage's we've we've got now that we know that you can have a plurality of theology she can have the thomas school and the franciscan you know monastic way of doing theology according to the target so that would there is an anglican way of doing theology there is
an anglican piety man's slumped andrews and herbert to the seventeenth century divines and children there's an anglican cannonball there's an anglican a hierarchical structure in the bishops archbishops which is that structure basically established by our own augustan
sent from gregory etc so all that would diversity so that's that's an example for instance of school to spirituality etc so that's the things can legitimately go there already for us first the second the different ways of understanding language like sister churches we might understand at will
one way the anglicans might understand it another the orthodox another of protestants this is certainly true so you got to be very careful of a sloppy use of a language that papers over
fortunately the anglicans and the roman catholics have been involved in a very rigorous theological dialogue or since the beginning of this decade set up by a anglican roman catholic joint commission i didn't find the documents in the library but they're very beautiful documents one on the eucharist
the center of our faith in the center of our problems one on the ministry who celebrates its secrets and one on authority they found in the eucharist substantial agreement and they found just the opposite we thought that is we were using differences in language thus we had differences of substance they found underneath this difference of language is seems
substance roman catholic said transubstantiation maybe we can sit we can understand we can understand this like which we don't accept it it's instituted we talk a real presence and after a very rigorous study they say the conclusion is a substantial agreement on what the eucharist is sometimes difference of language
sometimes you use different language to say the same thing sometimes certainly use the same language as say different things are fortunately the rigor in theological work i think it's been a respected
ah women's ordination that's a big one
i would just mention that after these three documents are there was an elucidation it's published because it was a reaction all of the world of these three documents or talked about this substantial agreement of the eucharist etc
and in that period the anglican communion was wrestling with it's complicated issue of women sort nations which cuts through all the churches certainly the orthodox to which lesser extent but there are even orthodox theologians and private tours during but certainly you know in the roman catholic church has been very debate some of art
frankly greatest theologians say there's no obstacle like rauner in our own bucket she it but that's another thing but my only point is the agreements are eucharist ministry etc are they all set aside by the fact of the ordination of women and this elucidation said no not at all
it believes this commission that our agreement on the essentials of eucharistic faith with regard to the sacramental presence of christ and the sec of sacrificial dimensional eucharist and on a nature and purpose of priesthood ordination apostolic succession oh is the new context in which the question should now be discussed i'm reading the wrong section on
they're saying here the whole question of the valid the liberty of anglican orders has to be reconsidered these documents aren't often known about but they see some amazing things are way ahead of the common understanding
discounts for my trace on the broader audience
they say that the problem of the ordination of women cause certainly problems it believes that the principles upon which it's doctrinal doctrine of agreement wrists are not affected by such order nations where it was concerned with the origin and nature of your day ministry and not with the question of who can
and or cannot be or date
objections however substantial to the ordination of women are the different kind from objections raised in the past against the validity of american workers in general so this is theological precision saying who can be ordained is what quit one question what is eastward an nation what his ministry what is eucharist is another and we found more
workable agreements in this area so the whole women thing has to be worked out but that doesn't in any way cancel out the substantial agreement we have to question of indiscriminate eucharistic sharing certainly an interchange was very rigorous on this oh sloppy eucharistic sharing
now what i don't know what about concretely the anglicans that's the question again you have the context of the substantial agreement about what is the eucharist you have the judgment of our own father a genie who saw me international pontifical theological commission says if an anglican approaches the older you should
never refuse him that our agreement of what is eucharist what isn't it is so substantial that it did this for years being held and agreements between theology with rangers but the people you know the people only district bundling them year we had a busy compelling a high level as period
but the variety of believe mom episcopalians but why you have don't you believe in on the week but we believe know close to catholic and another extremely to and as spanish period they don't believe the real presence like with you at all
as you know you have and you just look in the town
when they come up with these these documents he always had those who i am a non and i don't believe it is it all and never believe all lot lighter and never very president the yeah of course me you know so he stood on the intelligentsia and all these diligence he agreed but what about the whole lot of people who just don't
you have loved me the the are probability new abundance of this is a worker
certainly there is a tremendous pluralism of believe some the anglican communion and also now i think we have to acknowledge in the roman we've tried to pretend up to now that this is only with the anglican but if you get a home school who will steal and come together with of the favour etc how to do the eucharist it that we know i have a woman kathy
the low church high church way of should we stop now now
so there is that how do you understand and follow the are you understand the eucharist said we have the same thing and the orthodox throw that sort of objection against us now there's a positive and negative side on i think rigorously it shouldn't be true that any anglican doesn't believe in the real
presence for its you might use different language for instance are these commissions they were very carefully to be sure that all levels of the anglican tradition were represented also the lord church this was an error in the early dialogues with lord halifax and cardinal merci pour the how effects with high high high church so you've got
that it's much easier but of in these archaic documents you add all areas of the anglican communion represent the though most evangelical but by the way it's now very interested in the dialogue the roam the so-called broad church the high church now the air
anglican church as a whole has acknowledged these are chick documents as truly reflecting their faith this at lambeth this us church denver recently it's it so also the boat church now thirty you have ignorance you are people as you were protestants i mean as should see have you heard of you have
av as you have catholic single sorts of things they did a survey in italy i think twenty seven percent of roman catholic said that they didn't believe not only in hell or purgatory but even in heaven your incredible things that blow the mind up so maybe they didn't understand what they were saying etc but
our chick does represent the position of the whole of the anglican communion first second this difference of the anglicans it again is often sort of sneered at are worried over etc this is one approach again i think it is more and more characteristic of the roman catholic church
another thing is it is also a richness the anglican church is called bridge church it's always had a special ecumenical location because it claims to be catholic and it insists on this continuity with the pre reformed church in england and that's especially the high church but also the lord church insists on
the key elements of the reform of martin luther centro into the word the eucharist in a living language etc and say we also want this so i tried to and this is a real tension try to keep together these two poles the catholic and reform so if we do something with the anglicans it's not just with the anglicans it's open
awning up this bridge to the whole of the reform that's why for instance chance we were interested he says you can't have a humanism that goes just in the direction of orthodox it's pretty nice written vignette it's easier etc though underneath it's much more difficult talking about differences of language when we were at st vladimir's they say
at this point they really aren't interested in the humanism with anyone and for this reason that we're really speaking a whole different language your chances to a large extent it's true we can read the orthodox theologians and think we're understanding at all but often it comes out of an entirely different way of looking at the
it's an entirely different culture to do so but when anglicans talk and speak etc usually they are much closer to us and usually they are function is a kind of a bridge with the whole reform heritage which we can't just close off so if some are just protestant there can't be any anglican who's just protestant in the sense that he
he isn't recognizing the creeds the apostolic succession the bishops the eucharist the real presence in the eucharist etc this is the lamb the quadrilateral so if someone says he's been very sloppy as some catholic and but just by the name of the the church or
earthly where we were
they say that to show that mean solid dollars at the video
abedin good
i'm on a personal and new visit to avoid fighting between them they're not put your but they don't have any the little church that has no real president at all and it's a pocket say it's supposed to be a a church of the year and i hit him up his company isn't it was getting onto a boat why can they are
the not thirty one non-league the center in the term here again you have to be very rigorous the real presence in the eucharist is one question the advisability usefulness of the or would you call it the yes is another issue also in our dialogue with the orthodox you
can completely believe in the real presence but wonder if it is advisable to have a strong devotion centered on the tabernacle there's a whole section and here it's very very subtle reservation
but also the dangers of our position which we've suffered with here at a certain point the tabernacle can be more central than the altar and this sort of thing now we are getting back to the ancient church usage in here i'm not allergic so i know but the ancient churches use usage as i understand is at least not to put it on the central altar and a huge tabernacle that sort of
dominates the whole thing of the tendency is at least to put it to the side and substance where to the site etc whereas its function to the site primitively it was therefore if people should become sick it wasn't a primary center of so anglicans would certainly believe in the real presence they would
most of the reserve i suspected berkeley i know but somewhere you'll be there for the sick it won't be and it'll be there but so i would distinguish i think if you would ask an anglican if you believe that christ is really there in the eucharist he would say yes there are some protestants who getting way way way way down just as an exam
if there are crumbs after communion they can just throw them away they so insistent that this is just a symbol of the interior spiritual now this is the key the anglican would would never throw away the species but would always consume it or keep it
so but there's a whole section of my oregon
one of the crispy
the line often runs and political
uj jesuits teaching them
a really don't believe in the presence
read about that what is wrong
el domingo
since then but the just the way solve it even if you said and just throwing away the one of the whatever take it back to read latin kid doesn't have note
with the didn't but we're not one of those guys is into a lot of situations do
wait person with that in this economic greed or something that isn't going to theologians to but that doesn't represent
have from real communion that in the service that theologians green still is only our should we stay at best you getting sturt oh right so a same time and sector you
the sing gotta up on folders were often good boy from the intellectual road oh yeah through practice and and also to of indecent has been a book things he was a special gift of the knowledge fifty says the magisterium ah
the law and preserves continued in wisdom there is interpretation to the truce kind of the average and emerges
corporate kind of will the you
her appears few times various to fall apart the areas of destroying and the various interpretations of of the
unity presence
so i mean to visit kind of pain
what's going on now
you can have several few working to come to continue up confidence in you agree
this isn't this isn't really yet
the food was shooting
yeah beside me have something similar to this the after dusk the the and geneva the of the medical a that we're really happy in annese represent a representative the local rules are discussed or the of the ducks in a relationship with the protestant church but
if it hadn't that somebody he said well and he has to follow the recipe obesity well not not we can rule take that's a and they are there but it doesn't want to use following didn't need the feel uneasy about it we're to sort southern think many of the not agree and they are there that it
a lot in in reality with the
protests them
this is i think we're monks can be very decisive of interchange and says that in the orthodox world monte our is more decisive even the patriarchs and this can be a little changes because on the others is beautiful and etc starts as etc but there's also an extremely conservative a there that can take over
but the vocation of the monks in the ecumenical endeavor that is ecumenism can help renew and extent of the monastic life rosalynn monastic life can help really hear of disease and example so as you say it's not enough to have a theologian saying these things and even the official organ saying
this represents her feet now i'm a symbol like to see men of diverse faiths just living under the same roof these monks who told me it's an incredibly powerful symbol tries his tens of thousands of visitors that gets complicated but it's felt by the young people again you don't want to be slow
up the ecumenical but if we are to the point as martin says have some ecumenical monastic witness this is a way of of getting people into this whole reality in a very powerful way an entirely different level than documents so on the problem of
theologians only me this is i will just quote hear about this substantial agreement as to the eucharist what does this mean that is an agreement a unanimous agreement also the little church representatives etc on essential matters where it considers the doctrine admits no divergence that if there are any remain
eating points of disagreement reservation in the tabernacle and all the wrist they can be resolved on the principles here established so there's a real up to disappear that
at the heart of our fate as the eucharist is christ etc and with the anglicans but we are now in substantial agreement so this is a quieter now to get this out of the documents and into the consciousness in hopes and commitments to the people as i say i think the monk and help here and many levels was shared experience
nsa's with prayer and all the restaurant thursday i think we don't have a problem because the catholics up there much for them up garamendi elements of them are not combinable you in i have one is not have one eucharistic liturgy well as i mentioned this i guess where you were out of we were told by people were just back
because it changes from year to year what they are now doing is the one roman catholic priest is celebrating saturday and sunday and giving communion to everyone with the permission of the roman catholic bishop to eucharistic we share with us it's also clear with these people that they ever very rich eucharistic theology next three
this is clear there are currents of lutheran heritage that so so he assured them quite a few hosts are set aside and then there are communion services the other days with an episcopalian and with the roman catholic and frankly people cross over they don't always and another thing is other things are done
in a kind of a private exceptional basis of console abrasions etc that the bishops really know about that they don't want to be made public at all
so up the old model of two entirely separate once the the catholic celebrated underneath and the protestants above and you could sort of here each other up things are constantly on the move taste it and now this is their model
that is the most difficult point and we'll just have to see what the bishop wants permits etc these brothers out there
that was gathered all the much so that they are injected the on the rest of the others did not agree with them this dinner they are betraying the read the but they don't believe it was the first over the last as did not linear you got it
yeah never to oh indeed this is a problem with the was the immigration problem it does your another
it will try it now this problem in some sense has been resolved with the anglicans to bamba through denver etc the official organs representing the bishops the clergy and laity seeing these documents represent our fate and now the religious life the anglican communion if it had been addict
teens and francisco installed sorts of people for one hundred years they are now recognized by the official can involve the church they're praised in your official documents etc etc me another hot results are around a level of the violin and years ago and enemy the there's of the african continent were law
the on the phone now we have seamless with these her pepper lived as they happen the the yeah really yeah are you concentrating on the you know this is another tricky when as i mentioned in this elucidation the whole commission with the roman catholics is requesting urgently
the it called for a reappraisal of a verdict on anglican orders and ample storage inquiry in a light of the substantial agreement at what if this is the eucharist there is another complementing complicating factor since the time of apostolic church inquiry the anglicans started ordaining their bishops with the presence of all catholic
bishop's now we certainly recognize the validity of a catholic bishops so after apostolic church cool right but you get at the very minimal or these currents and validity coming in if you want to say that the anglican current in itself is completely in gold but truth the old catholic
participation and this is so widely distributed know if that bishop who ordains these priests and from his precise bishop and
the great majority of anglican clergy are now valid simply by this minimal through the all catholics but this is a different approach this is thing we've got to reconsider the whole thing of what is a validity of form there's a little pamphlet in the a multimedia display in the library by